Getting away from TP in a reraised pot

[NYplayer]

Under what circumstances can you get away from TP when you were a pf 3 bettor? Here are some examples from 10/20, 100bb stacks, play for fold.

1) you are in BB and button makes it 80. you make it 260 with A9s. Flop is A 8 4 rainbow. you bet 400 and he makes it 1250. push/call/fold?

2) you are in BB with AQo, Button raises tp 70, SB calls, you make it 300 button folds, SB calls. Flop is Q 5 3 with a flush draw. sb checks, you bet 500, he pushes. call/fold?

3) co opens for 80 and you make it 260 on the button with AQs co calls. Flops is QT4 and CO check raises all in. What if it's AT4?

what would be some example hands and flops where you would fold top pair to heat after 3 betting pf and betting the flop?

[NYplayer]

1 more

you make it 270 in the sb with KQs after the co opens for 70.

flop is Q65 rainbow. you bet 450 and he pushes.

[Ian J]

I would fold hand 1 and call quickly in the other 2.

Hand 1 it just doesn't seem like he can really have anything that you beat other than air.

Hand 2 your hand just feels like a total monster here and I could never fold.

Hand 3 is somewhat similar to hand 2 but add in the fact that he can have a number of draws or worse pair hands and I think you have to call.

[Ansky]

NYPlayer,

Clearly before you even bet, you should typically have a relative idea of what you are doing given various reactions from your opponent, as these possible future decisions have a huge bearing on your decision right now. By that I mean, very often if you are betting for value, but can't stand a raise, and he is only going to fold or raise, clearly you shouldn't valuebet and then fold to a raise. You should check or you should bet/call.

There is also a great deal of exploitability at risk if you are doing things like bet/folding top pair in a reraised pot after putting in like 40% of your stack. In general it should be avoided. At the same time, it is ok to have an exploitable game if you are playing against someone who will not exploit it properly. For example in the A9 hand if you are playing someone who will often bluff raise Ace high flops, you cannot bet/fold here... or at least you cannot if he bluffs above a certain threshhold frequency. Clearly this frequency is not one you can know for sure, but the better you know your opponent, the better you can judge if you can bet/call a shove here.

The decision is not merely based on what to do after you bet obviously. If I have a9 in that reraised pot, I may decide to check if the player will bet with air, or I may decide to bet/fold if the player plays very straight forward.

As for the other few examples, AQ on q-high board in a reraised pot... yeah im never folding vs the sb in that.

[ QUOTE ]
3) co opens for 80 and you make it 260 on the button with AQs co calls. Flops is QT4 and CO check raises all in. What if it's AT4?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are more likely to see a draw or a random bluff on the QT4 board so I am never bet/folding there.

On the AT4 board, you will see AT more than you will see AJ and you will see AK as well so I would be more likely to fold to a shove there. The reason I may not dislike bet/folding there (as opposed to what I said earlier in the thread) is that very often players w/ Ax will go into c/c mode and just pay you off if you bet again on turn, whereas if they have a better hand they will typically try to get it in on the flop, so you can have a much better idea about their ranges this way.

[holla-at-yoboy]

These hands are pretty simple. Fold hand 1, call 2 and 3. I wouldn't even really consider anything besides fold/call/call

[EmpireMaker2]

Im pretty sure ur never ahead in any of the three......But I need to know what the opponents play like.

[Kala1928]

Betting so much in hand 1 is spew.