theoretical situation, final 3

[alphatmw]

you are at the final table of a large tournament, down to the final three. the chip standings are as follows:

you: 1,000,000
player A: 1,000,000
player B: 1

player B folds on the button and player A pushes. player A is a good, rational player. the payout is as follows:

1st: 1,000,000
2nd: 500,000
3rd: 250,000

what range of hands do you call with? you are interested in maximizing your tournament winnings and nothing else.

[Pondus]

blinds/ante?

[Unknown Soldier]

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what range of hands do you call with? you are interested in maximizing your tournament winnings and nothing else.

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when are you not interested in maximising your winnings? If its +$EV, do it.

[Gonso]

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blinds/ante?

[/ QUOTE ] Easy to answer but need this info.

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when are you not interested in maximising your winnings? If its +$EV, do it.

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It's not that simple, especially in this case, for two reasons:

Many people in this situation would be far more concerned with the accomplishment of winning 1st place than just simply maximizing EV. That might sound like they're the same thing, but they aren't. There are situations where a player who emphasizes winning the event over $EV will make different decisions.

The other issue is that it can be very correct to turn down +EV situations, particularly when you anticipate getting even greater EV in other spots. If you think you have a good edge on a weak opponent HU, foo example, why on Earth would you want to call as a 55-45 favorite if you're both deep? You'd be hard pressed to overcome the kind of variance coin-flipping in situations like this long-term.

So OP was right on to point that out, just need the blinds & antes...

[PantsOnFire]

If I am a player who is concerned about payouts and increasing my bankroll, I call only with AA. I want to lock up second place and don't want to get involved with Player A at all. (actually, I might consider laying down AA as well).

If I am a retired Internet millionaire and don't care about the payout, then I am likely playing for the glory of first place and nothing else. Thus, my calling range will depend on my read of Player A and will also depend on the size of blinds/antes. In other words, in this scenario I don't care about that short stack, I am trying to get chips from Player A.

[Unknown Soldier]

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The other issue is that it can be very correct to turn down +EV situations, particularly when you anticipate getting even greater EV in other spots. If you think you have a good edge on a weak opponent HU

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good point, do we have an edge HU?

[alphatmw]

ah, forgot blinds. blinds are 20,000/40,000. i'm also interested to know what you would call with in the case that the blinds are 5,000/10,000 if its different. what about 50,000/100,000?

also, you believe you and player A are evenly matched HU.

[JocK]

Why would I call? I would fold any hand including AA. Let him have the 40,000.

As soon as player B is out, I'll take revenge... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

If a move is +EV in terms of chips, it need not be +EV in real money. The problem stated provides a clear example.

[alphatmw]

i don't have the math, but folding AA seems ridiculously stupid here. playing AA means you win the tournament as often as your AA holds up.

[JocK]

Hmmm... looking a bit more at the payout structure....

Prior to this hand my expected payout was 0.5 * 1,000,000 + 0.5 * 500,000 = 750,000

If I fold, my expected payout will be slightly lower than 750,000 (due to the loss of 1 BB and player A gaining SB+BB).

However, if I call, my expected payout will be:

Pwin * 1,000,000 + (1 - Pwin) * 250,000

= 250,000 + Pwin * 750,000

Any hand that has a Pwin > 2/3 should call (that definitely includes AA)...