the others mistakes

[B_ing]

Hello!

In one of my posts ( http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=9#Post8010908 ) i was reminded that a lot ( better ALL) of you profit comes from mistakes you opponents make. After reading Theory of Poker (p.270-272) again and again, and looking on Threads about taking notes, i must admitt i dont fully understand all.
So i now start this thread to discuss which mistakes can be exploited in micro-limits and how it can be done. I think all notes about a player should contain his mistakes so you can take advantage of them, but therefor you must understand them. Another point is how can Pocker Tracker help me to classify the mistakes someone does?
I will start giving you the list in ToP (Theory of Poker) and expressing my Thought's. This will be done Part by Part, after completing the list i want to discuss some other mistakes not mentioned before. I will edit this post about once a week so you can find most information here.
The list is given in:
Mistake index - Opponent does A - do B.

1.) "bluffs to much" - call down more, fold less (THX to Guruman for making this clear).
? i got no idea how PT can help me here ?

2.) "bluffs to little" - "stop a bluff, then fold if you cannot beat a hand" (Sklansky). ? Means i should raise as a defense against a bluff, if he calls my raise i should throw away all hands which i think he has beaten.?
? Again i dont know how PT can help me to identify a player who bluffs to little (stats) ?

3.) "Never folds any fair hand on the end" - "never bluff, but come out betting with a decent hand". clearly you should not bluff if you expect to be called with a made hand and bet your better hands for value if he calls.
? i would expect such a player to have a W$SD of less 45%, correct ?

4.) "Rarely folds a fair hand on any round" - "Don't slowplay. Bet your decent hands for value". If you can expect you opponent to call with his fair hands you surely should not miss a bet by slowplaying. Your better hands can be raised/bet for value since your opponent has a low calling standard.
? Since this player folds less than he should he should have WSD of more than 35% with a W$SD of less than 45% ?

O.K. lets begin discussion!

[Niediam]

The biggest mistake your opponets make is playing crap hands and then going too far with them.

Raise.

[B_ing]

Thanks. I will add this to my post later. On which stats could a assignment of goes to far with weak hand be based? I think it should be VPIP >= 40% and WSD >40. What Do you think of these numbers, are they to high/low?

What do you think of the PT stats I assigned to the mistakes according to Sklansky?

[NIX]

An easy way to find general mistakes that opponents are making through using Poker Tracker is to compare the stats of opponents to the 'optimal' stats in the FAQ. Differences in style and a small sample size will cause stats to deviate though. But, for example, if you see someone with a VPIP of 40+, he is playing too many hands, or an AF of .2, he is not aggressive enough and probably isn't about to bluff at all. Things like that. For more complex weaknesses, it's easier and better to just get real reads and combine then with PT numbers rather than relying solely on PT.

[Bona]

IMO: If your opponent has a high AF s/he is likely NOT taking his weak hands too far. Im not sure VP$IP tells you anything about that. High VP$IP tells me a player has a wide range of starting hands. That is all.

In a FR limit game I tend to look at a player with 30+/5-/.8- as probably a fairly loose and passive player. However a player w 30+/8+/2+ will probably be much tougher.

Some very good players have a situationally wide starting range. Also some very bad players. It all depends how they play after the flop and the nature of the competition. If a player shows down with cards I wouldn't have started with I try to figure out why. Look at his/her table position and who they were playing against. Also how did the hand develop. Is that why they were still in at showdown? Did the draw they missed have pot odds for them to draw or were they just calling down and hoping? Those and other answers can help you decide if that player is weak or strong.

I think the best players (I am not one), especially in the higher stakes games, cleverly use opportunities provided by reads and or the situation to "mix up" their play and therefore confuse their opponents reads. We may not see much of that in micro stakes games but I suspect it is a highly relevant skill that needs developing to thrive at mid stakes and higher.

[bozlax]

B_ing, I've just gone through some of your posts, and here's my advice: don't worry about this. First, you're still relatively green; focus on getting your play of YOUR hand down solid before worrying too, too much about what the other guy is doing (one of the advantages to playing Micros as a newbie is you can get away with zero-level thinking and still be successful).

Second, even as you get up in limits, think about what you're trying to do. You want to use PT stats to determine trends in players who you typically see for < 1000 hands, players who are also probably learning the game and therefore their style will be evloving. And it's pretty rare to see the same players enough at Micros to be able to use a carefully-developed read. (From this year, I have nearly 10,000 players in my database; only the top 12 have more than 100 hands, and none have more than 1,000.)

Finally, while it's ok to use PT/PAHUD for basic stuff (high VPIP = too loose; high PFR = too aggro preflop; yada yada), but you can't use it for more complex reads like you're trying to put together, here. For that you actually need to watch players and take textual notes.

[fretelöo]

1) bluffs too much: Obviously, you have to be active to be able to bluff. So someone with a high AF is your first candidate. Then you have to watch him and see if he's actually bluffing or just playing his strong hands strongly and getting out early every time else.

2) bluffs too little: If there's such a thing in Limit, it'll be the guys with a 0.2AF after 200hands. If they bet, or raise, get out.

3) and 4) are very specific and just about how you should play. So I would assume that from every one who has "healthy" stats. I don't put too much emphasize on Went-to-SD etc. because that is a statistic that only becomes meaningful after very many hands. If he has a vpip of 20, he has played about 20 hands in one session. He might chose to continue with 1/3 of them and go to showdown with half the remaining. Until that becomes a meaningful sample, you need probably about 10 sessions or so. (Just two weeks ago I had a session with a vpip of 10, Went to showdown of 20 and a Won at showdown of 0.0 - in a 200hands session... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )

But those are just my guesses. I'm just starting to worry about note-taking and developing a system for that myself [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[B_ing]

[ QUOTE ]
For more complex weaknesses, it's easier and better to just get real reads and combine then with PT numbers rather than relying solely on PT.

[/ QUOTE ]

It never was my intentioned to use solely the numbers given above to classify mistakes, my goal was more to use them to prove my reads are correct. Beyond that those numbers I gave were based upon the stats part of the FAQ.