A8o vs. Blind Steal

DesertCat · #1 12-03-2006, 07:58 PM

Casino Arizona 8-16. Loose passive table and surprisingly, entire table folds to mostly unknown player on button who raises, I call with A8o in BB.

Flop is AhJd8h. I check-raise, button calls. Turn is the Th. I bet, button raises. I fold.

How's my line, should I have checked a heart turn so I can get a cheap showdown? Should I have folded the turn? My concern was AJ/AT/KQ/AA/JJ/TT all have me dead or near death. Lastly, is three betting A8o pre-flop against a presumably loose passive player a positive EV play?

Hass · #2 12-03-2006, 08:23 PM

What always scared me about button raises in this game was that 99% of people chop the blinds.

Majority of players in this game will just fold their button so that the blinds can chop. Therefor if someone does open from the button it is usually going to be a real hand.

I don't know if I could fold in this spot but I think your beat more often than not here. If you were in the 20/40 game or higher, we're either going to 3town or calling down. There will be no folding except in rare situations with good reads.

On the other hand there are exceptions to this, like when you have some 20 or 40 players waiting for seats, or of course if the button is asian.

DesertCat · #3 12-03-2006, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What always scared me about button raises in this game was that 99% of people chop the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't want to provide this information (since I'm not sure I knew it until after this hand), but this guy regularly limped in the CO and on the button. That supports the idea that it's a big hand.

Nate. · #4 12-03-2006, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Casino Arizona 8-16. Loose passive table and surprisingly, entire table folds to mostly unknown player on button who raises, I call with A8o in BB.

Flop is AhJd8h. I check-raise, button calls. Turn is the Th. I bet, button raises. I fold.

How's my line, should I have checked a heart turn so I can get a cheap showdown? Should I have folded the turn? My concern was AJ/AT/KQ/AA/JJ/TT all have me dead or near death. Lastly, is three betting A8o pre-flop against a presumably loose passive player a positive EV play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cat --

With your reads this is perfect. Most of these guys open too tight so just calling is better that three-betting. After that you get max action. After that you're sure enough that you're beat. He won't bet a worse hand for you and your hand is reasonably vulnerable.

If you couldn't trust his turn raise I think bet-call-evaluate is still better than check-call.

Nice hand.

--Nate

OnlinePro · #5 12-03-2006, 11:33 PM

LOL if the button is asian, then u Le Laise

benwood · #6 12-04-2006, 12:13 AM

"Majority of players in this game will just fold their button so that the blinds can chop."

Wow.I'm speechless.

benwood · #7 12-04-2006, 12:23 AM

He could be raising the turn with an ace & a big heart planning on showing it down for free if you stay in & a heart doesn't come on the river.

Does this guy know your game well enough to think that you will probably fold to a raise?

poker1O1 · #8 12-04-2006, 01:04 AM

no way I'm folding this, there's a lot of hands he's raising here that we beat

The DaveR · #9 12-04-2006, 02:25 AM

Against an unknown I playing defensively and getting to showdown, largely so I can get a read.

private joker · #10 12-04-2006, 02:43 AM

Live 8/16 games are normally pretty passive, and the players don't stick around very often (table changing, busting, etc.), so getting a read isn't that important and raises on the big streets almost always mean big hand. I don't hate this fold, but I don't think I could do it against an unknown who might play AK this way.