($55) KK - lead out or check/fold?

[GutPunch]

How often do you c-bet here? What is your plan if you are raised or called?

How often do you check here?

I have seen the line of check/calling a flop bet, and check/folding to a turn bet... but I dislike that line with these stack sizes.

What do you reccomend?

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1370)
UTG+1 (t1735)
MP1 (t585)
MP2 (t890)
Hero (t1350)
Button (t1800)
SB (t890)
BB (t1380)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t150</font>, Button calls t150, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t375) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero ??</font>,

[Weirdpete12]

There are two strategies that I have seen used here quite a bit.

1) Put him on a larger range of hands because he is in the on the button and has great position. Bet right into him and see how he reacts. If he reraises, you have an idea of where he stands. However, he may just call and check on the turn. That way if he has aces or a straight or a flush draw you are safer. If he bets, you can fold. He didn't show alot of pre-flop strength with just a call.

2. Or play it safe and check/fold if he shows alot of strength. He could have paired the ace or played A3 or K3 in late position. A hard part of poker is laying down such a good starting hand.

Personally, I would bet on the flop and if he reraises, i'd fold. If he calls, check on the turn, again to save yourself the extra bet to keep him honest. If he raisess there, i'd fold, unless you have some read that isn't presented here.

Not sure what the rest of you would do,

I'd be interested to hear.

[smittymatt]

I almost always C-bet KK after an A falls. You'd be suprised how often your opponent will have a lower pair/suited connectors/broadway cards and will just fold to your flop bet. If they should interest, they almost always have the A.

[downtown]

[ QUOTE ]
I almost always C-bet KK after an A falls. You'd be suprised how often your opponent will have a lower pair/suited connectors/broadway cards and will just fold to your flop bet. If they should interest, they almost always have the A.

[/ QUOTE ]

My 11-55 brain always c-bet here, and if I were raised I let it go. Now that I am trying to tune that old jalopy of a brain up for higher level play, I have been thinking about trying to get more value out of these big hands that *may* have been outflopped by not c-betting all the time.

Warning, this is going to require that you do some thinking post-flop.

A c-bet is fine with any 2 cards here, but you don't have any 2 cards, you have KK. A c-bet that hopes to get whatever your opponent has that's worse than Ax is also going to get him to fold something worse than your hand.

If you want to retain the value of your big (now 2nd) pair, and aren't afraid to check/call the flop and reevaluate the turn, I think you're going to get a lot more value out of hands like this. Yes you are going to occasionally have to put more chips in with a losing hand, but in the long run I believe you will gain chips. It's going to be way easier for villain to raise your c-bet and have you lay down the best hand than it is going to be for him to fire, be called, (Yes, I'm suggesting you c/c once in a while here) and fire again on the turn (either raising your turn bet or firing again) with less than an ace.

You are going to have to make a read, and I do not believe that checking twice will lead to a villain always betting because you "showed weakness." Again, this is read-dependent. Let's play some poker here folks.

I'm not saying do this exclusively, but mixing up your play in this fashion
1) smacks of "poker" to me, which I like,
2) doesn't totally devalue that KK that you hold in your hand and turn it into essentially any 2 cards, and
3) will make you more money in the long run in those tricky spots where QQ/KK flop an overcard A or K.

[AliasMrJones]

I'd bet out and fold to a raise.

[Requin]

Downtown: not a bad idea, my only problem with it is that villain will often (at least in my experiance) pot the flop when you check. If you C-bet for 175 say, you risk a lot less chips than C/C a bigger bet by villain. Plus, C/C doesn't stop villain from making backdoor hands.

[HtotheNootch]

Against one player, I bet it every single time - if the bet isn't all-in or doesn't pot-commit me.

[GutPunch]

Flop: (t375) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets 175, Button calls

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero??

now Check/fold?

[ChrisV]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t375) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets 175, Button calls

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero??

now Check/fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet 250. 175 looks a bit scared.

You should check/fold now. Your hand is not strong enough to bet again.