nl400: deepish KK hand #2

schwza · #1 12-03-2006, 03:34 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($1156)
SB ($450.90)
BB ($596.55)
UTG ($400)
Hero ($1088.40)
CO ($477)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, Button raises to $52, 2 folds, Hero calls $36.

Flop: ($110) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $88, Hero calls $88.

Turn: ($286) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $280, Hero calls $280.

River: ($846) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $736 (All-In), Hero calls $668.40 (All-In).

villain is 21/16 in 500 hands, and i'm running about the same, or a little more aggro. we hadn't been tangling a ton before this hand. the river push was instant.

mikeJ · #2 12-03-2006, 04:02 PM

I usually 4 bet pre, but that immediately gives away my hand strength. Anybody care to comment on a good call/4-bet ratio?

Flop looks good if you're intending on shutting him out on a non-heart turn where your equity will be better and the stack sizez make it easier to get AI.

Turn: I think you should c/r AI, villain could very well be semi-bluffing, w/ 1 heart and will often have a smaller overpair than yours.

River: I feel like you only beat missed hearts like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K or K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A or a 3-barrel air. I don't really like the river call for that reason. I think you'll usually find villain has the flush/44/45. If villain has 99, it's a great bet, but I don't think you see people turning 99 into a bluff in this spot @ 2/4. Your hand is pretty face up on river as like JJ+ on a sliding scale or one big missed heart.

What do people think about villain value shoving a set? Only against certain opponents?

The problem w/ playing passively like this pre and on the flop is that you haven't narrowed villain's range much, so you have to go broke on the turn, imo.

freemoney · #3 12-03-2006, 04:15 PM

cr turn all day.

curtains · #4 12-03-2006, 04:25 PM

I'd usually reraise PF, and just be sure to do it occasionally (or more than occasionally depending on the opponents) with non AA-QQ hands, so there is no worry of "giving away your hand".

PatInTheHat · #5 12-03-2006, 07:27 PM

I 4 bet PF deep. I also check raise this turn. As played you pretty much only beat a bluff.

FishRoller · #6 12-03-2006, 08:11 PM

Reraise to $150 pf. B/c he's button, if he repops shove or call shove urself. Honestly, I could go either way on this river call. Lone A hearts or K hearts that missed is POSSIBLE, and button could just abusing position by 3 barreling his draw. But b/c u didn't 4bet pf, he could have reraised light and flopped low flush or hit a set/straight/maybe even 2 pair on this. I think this is fold unless definite reads that villain is very aggro and will get all the $ in on riv by bluffing. Honestly, I c flopped flush and straight/set play this way so I like a fold. I dont like letting him do all the betting- u have no information at all where ur at. Meh, I would preferable lead flop or MAYBE c/r vs laggy villian and get it in on any safe turn. I dont like the c/c whole way. You really do only beat a bluff, and by betting and getting raised, u could have easily mucked this hand and saved ur $ from all this c/c if ur behind (which it looks like)>

cts · #7 12-03-2006, 08:13 PM

I kinda like how you played it other than not 4-betting pre OOP. I beat him to the pot on the river.

HERE_2_gamble_ · #8 12-03-2006, 08:23 PM

U shove the river?

schwza · #9 12-03-2006, 08:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd usually reraise PF, and just be sure to do it occasionally (or more than occasionally depending on the opponents) with non AA-QQ hands, so there is no worry of "giving away your hand".

[/ QUOTE ]

the situation hadn't come up with us before, and i think that most people will give you credit on your first 4-bet. i'd be more likely to 4bet 55 or KJs or something here.

schwza · #10 12-03-2006, 08:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I 4 bet PF deep. I also check raise this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree 4betting the turn would've been a good line. i can get called by something like JhJx that's only going to give me action on the river if he improves. the advantage of calling turn is that i can snap off bluffs on the river. he can either put me on the naked Ah or have it himself, and a lot of bluffs will come on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
As played you pretty much only beat a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. he's an idiot if he's value betting QQ. but the flip side of that is that he also will frequently check behind with AA, so there aren't many hands that are value pushing the river.