Fire in the Lake -- -a very good book about the Vietnam War

fish2plus2 · #1 11-28-2006, 02:47 PM

This book won the pulizter prize and a bunch of other awards.

Ive only read the first chapter so far, which was phenomenal. It is not an easy read, but it is very interesting.

"This landmark work, based on Frances FitzGeralds own research and travels, takes us inside Vietnaminto the traditional, ancestor-worshiping villages and the corrupt crowded cities, into the conflicts between Communists and anti-Communists, Catholics and Buddhists, generals and monks and reveals the country as seen through Vietnamese eyes. With a clarity and authority unrivaled by any book before it or since, Fire in the Lake shows how America utterly and tragically misinterpreted the realities of Vietnam. For Fire in the Lake, Frances FitzGerald received the Pulitzer Prize, the National Book Award, an Overseas Press Club award for best interpretation of foreign affairs, an American Academy of Arts and Letters award, a National Institute for Arts and Letters award, the Front Page Award, the Christopher Book Award, the Washington Monthly Political Book Award, the Sidney Hillman Award, and the Bancroft Prize. In the 30 years since its initial publication, Fire in the Lake has achieved the status of a classic."

Here is a paragraph that I found particularly intersting:

"...the rituals and way of life...did not help them against the French...thus mandarins(scholars)concluded that they had to be abandoned...P.T.Giang(general) reconciled this logic with his loyalty to the nation by commiting suicide and ordering his sons not to serve the French but to bring up their children in the French way."

Something else I foung interesting was an anecdote about a bunch of students who got angry at a professor after he spent a week teaching them about Machiavelli, and then asked them to turn to Montesquieu.

"What do you mean teaching us one thing one day and one thing the next day?"

The students did not understand that government could be a matter of opinion. Either a government had worked or it had not.

Nixon said "Invading Cambodia is a step towards peace.. to let every South Vietnamese chose what form of government he wants."

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Living in Asia, it is very hard to understand the way people think. For instance, a westerner approachs buddhism as a philosophy, there are many philosophies. A Vietnamese person is a buddhist. They do not read about the ideas and weight them against other ideas. They just accept them and live by them from the time they are born.

This book talks about how a child in Vietnam is taught to mimick everything his grandfather does, this way he can fill the grandfather's role.

This war was a complete travesty.

Bill Haywood · #2 11-28-2006, 04:06 PM

Yes, it's a favorite that's really stood the test of time.

It is especially good at showing the depth of Vietnamese society, and how ingrained resistance to foreigners is. You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

Knockwurst · #3 11-28-2006, 06:21 PM

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You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

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But does it have any relevance to the US today? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Myrtle · #4 11-28-2006, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

[/ QUOTE ]

But does it have any relevance to the US today? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

....gee, I dunno. Let me think on it a bit. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

John21 · #5 11-28-2006, 10:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

[/ QUOTE ]

But does it have any relevance to the US today? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

....gee, I dunno. Let me think on it a bit. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

We can learn a lot of things. Like when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life, it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you. You might lose some battles, but you'll slow it's expansion enough to enable you to attack it's weak flank. We weren't fighting a war against Vietnam, we were fighting a war against the ideology of communism. And we did okay in that war.

Bill Haywood · #6 11-28-2006, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We can learn a lot of things. Like when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life, it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't find where to learn that in FitzGerald. Can you cite a page?

John21 · #7 11-29-2006, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We can learn a lot of things. Like when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life, it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't find where to learn that in FitzGerald. Can you cite a page?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just responding to your post.[ QUOTE ]
You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking it was your commentary on the book, not a quote from it. Sorry.

andyfox · #8 11-29-2006, 02:23 AM

"when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life,it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you. You might lose some battles, but you'll slow it's expansion enough to enable you to attack it's weak flank."

How did Ho Chi Minh threaten our way of life? Didn't committing ourselves to murdering Asian peasants threaten us economically, politically, and morally?

MidGe · #9 11-29-2006, 04:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
... when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life, it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yes, the old preemptive reason! LOL

What if a country have people that think they are threatened by the US culture or ideology. Is that a good enough reason to do a 9/11?

fish2plus2 · #10 11-29-2006, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You really come to appreciate how astoundingly ignorant the US was in thinking it could recast the lives of a foreign people.

[/ QUOTE ]

But does it have any relevance to the US today? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

....gee, I dunno. Let me think on it a bit. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

We can learn a lot of things. Like when you're confronted with a growing ideology (communism) that threatens your way of life, it's best to attack it on its front, rather than wait for it to come to you. You might lose some battles, but you'll slow it's expansion enough to enable you to attack it's weak flank. We weren't fighting a war against Vietnam, we were fighting a war against the ideology of communism. And we did okay in that war.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL