Card on the floor

yoursmine · #1 11-20-2006, 11:33 AM

NL tourney
EP player raises and 3 others call the raise. No flop yet. Someone notices the card on the floor (face down). The ruling was for everyone to take back their bets, reshuffle and redeal the hand.

Was this correct or should they have played the hand out?

psandman · #2 11-20-2006, 11:44 AM

I say play out the hand. Expose the card just in case any player might have seen it.

the reason i wouldn't void the hand in progress is the possibility that a player may hold out a card and drop it after action occurs that he doesn't like.

Or a player who notices a card on the floor might simply not mention it until an opportune time.

dcasper70 · #3 11-20-2006, 12:07 PM

I would tend to agree, but if I'm in the bb, ep raises, there's 2 calls to me, and I look down at 33, I'm going to call the raise hoping to flop a set.

If after I call, the floor card is revealed to be a 3, I'm going to want my chips back.

yoursmine · #4 11-20-2006, 01:18 PM

I guess the point was we didnt know how the card got there....deliberate or not. It also would clearly affect the play of the hand if players knew it was there and what it was. If a card was exposed dealing pre-flop we keep it up as the burn card. However in this case everyone bet first without knowing what the card in question was (7 of hearts) If someone had pocket 7s they may not have raised or called a raise.

I really dont know on this one

Lottery Larry · #5 11-20-2006, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
NL tourney
EP player raises and 3 others call the raise. No flop yet. Someone notices the card on the floor (face down). The ruling was for everyone to take back their bets, reshuffle and redeal the hand.

Was this correct or should they have played the hand out?

[/ QUOTE ]

While Robert's Rules defind this as a misdeal, the starting exception is listed as:

"A misdeal shall cause all the cards to be returned to the dealer for a redeal. A misdeal may not be called once substantial action has taken place on a deal. "Substantial action'' is defined as three players taking any action (including a fold), or two players acting by a bet, call or raise before attention is called to the error. "

and

"One or more cards missing from the deck does not invalidate the results of a hand."

So, this should have been played out. As to exposing the card to all

"A down card dealt off the table is an exposed card."

I would say that you complete the action preflop, expose the downed card to the entire table and continue with the hand.

Thoughts, anyone?

yoursmine · #6 11-20-2006, 03:04 PM

LL
Looks like the hand should have been played out. I dont nec agree with the ruling. If I have a pocket pair and the implied odds to bust a PF raiser then I sure as hell want to know if one of my cards has been burned or not. If it is then my implied odds have to be huge for me to call that raise.
Anyway thanks for the info

Lottery Larry · #7 11-20-2006, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
LL
Looks like the hand should have been played out. I dont nec agree with the ruling. If I have a pocket pair and the implied odds to bust a PF raiser then I sure as hell want to know if one of my cards has been burned or not. If it is then my implied odds have to be huge for me to call that raise.
Anyway thanks for the info

[/ QUOTE ]

So, are you exposing the card mid-street, so some players have the advantage of the knowledge and those who have acted already do not?

Small Fry · #8 11-20-2006, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LL
Looks like the hand should have been played out. I dont nec agree with the ruling. If I have a pocket pair and the implied odds to bust a PF raiser then I sure as hell want to know if one of my cards has been burned or not. If it is then my implied odds have to be huge for me to call that raise.
Anyway thanks for the info

[/ QUOTE ]

So, are you exposing the card mid-street, so some players have the advantage of the knowledge and those who have acted already do not?

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know somebody doesn't already know what that card is? I don't see how you can wait to show all. Makes sense to me that once the card is found it is immediately shown to all.

yoursmine · #9 11-20-2006, 03:46 PM

When the card was found the preflop betting had just been concluded so I suppose it could have been shown before the flop came although it would not have helped the guy who had pkt 7s preflop or 56 and the flopcomes with a 3 and 4

pfapfap · #10 11-20-2006, 07:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it would not have helped the guy who had pkt 7s preflop or 56 and the flopcomes with a 3 and 4

[/ QUOTE ]

What you mean is it won't help all the other people, since the person who has knowledge that a card they need isn't coming can make the proper adjustments.

Expose it immediately. Least bad solution of all the possibilities, ends any argument.