2NL TT overpair

Supwithbates · #1 11-03-2006, 02:06 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($1.91)
MP ($2.27)
Button ($6.30)
SB ($6.76)
BB ($1.34)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $0.08, MP calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold.

Flop: ($0.26) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $0.1, Hero raises to $0.3, MP folds, SB calls $0.20.

Turn: ($0.86) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16.

River: ($1.18) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16.

Final Pot: $1.50

Raise on the flop is weak I know. My thinking was that a legitimate raise would leave me committed and if he coldcalled I wouldn't necessarilly have enough information to lay it down later if I was beat. Bad thinking, I know.
As played, check/call later streets OK?

iSTRONG · #2 11-03-2006, 02:08 PM

Raise turn. Check behind on the river.

Edit: Flop raise is fine.

Supwithbates · #3 11-03-2006, 02:17 PM

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Raise turn. Check behind on the river.

Edit: Flop raise is fine.

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Can't check behind on river

iSTRONG · #4 11-03-2006, 03:13 PM

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Raise turn. Check behind on the river.

Edit: Flop raise is fine.

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Can't check behind on river

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You will if you raise the turn.

Supwithbates · #5 11-03-2006, 05:36 PM

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Raise turn. Check behind on the river.

Edit: Flop raise is fine.

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Can't check behind on river

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You will if you raise the turn.

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what hand is going to bet/call on flop and turn then suddenly check river? If he were drawing he wouldn't donk out again on the turn, he'd check/call. The fact that he called my raise then led again on the turn says to me that he's either got fancy play syndrome and trying to float my flop raise, in which case he'd fold to my turn raise, or he'd call/lead river, or 3bet turn. I don't ever ever see him call/checking river after leading out twice here.

Adding to this is that I'm not that strong, I have a fairly weak overpair and encountering resistance on a board that's unlikely to help many hands that I beat that would call a preflop raise.
My guess is that he's got a pocket pair, so I'm either WA/WB and my primary goal is NOT to build a pot here. I've got showdown value, shouldn't my goal here be to get to the showdown cheaply?

iSTRONG · #6 11-03-2006, 05:42 PM

Are you kidding me? He's bet 0.16 into an .80 pot!! To me this is not *leading*. To me this is the exact same thing as a check.

Supwithbates · #7 11-03-2006, 09:38 PM

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Are you kidding me? He's bet 0.16 into an .80 pot!! To me this is not *leading*. To me this is the exact same thing as a check.

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In terms of money, yes. But what is more important is determining what the bet means. For many of these weak passive donks, they have no idea how to betsize in relation to the pot and think bigger bets won't get called so they just bet out random amounts.
Even to these weak players, they have to know that being raised is a sign of strength, and they wouldn't continue betting out without a hand (in many cases).
It's worth noting that some players use these mini bets as a defensive bet; my read on this villian was just that he had no idea how to betsize.

iSTRONG · #8 11-03-2006, 09:54 PM

Meh, i see fish trying to draw for cheap play like that all day.

Supwithbates · #9 11-03-2006, 10:32 PM

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Meh, i see fish trying to draw for cheap play like that all day.

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i see it both ways, but against this villian I didn't feel he was putting out defensive bets but was rather betting for value.