is there any other way?

[tHeLefty]

i am an plo high player but i do love and enjoy this game, as it is by far my favorite limit game. im not very knowledgable though and i want to know if this is a standard way to play this hand.

PokerStars Game #6755691560: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/10/24 - 18:48:01 (ET)
Table 'Oenone II' 10-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: pogo ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 2: kbj4885 ($68.25 in chips)
Seat 3: CarrickBoy ($47.50 in chips)
Seat 4: kass&tnames ($27 in chips)
Seat 5: awm450 ($37.50 in chips)
Seat 6: ACS999 ($100.75 in chips)
Seat 7: Arcticman ($15.75 in chips)
Seat 8: BonnieLo ($32.25 in chips)
Seat 9: hi-lo skip ($26 in chips)
Seat 10: chaching ($42.25 in chips)
kass&tnames: posts small blind $0.50
awm450: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to awm450 [Kc Kd 2c As]
ACS999: folds
Arcticman: folds
BonnieLo: folds
hi-lo skip: folds
chaching: folds
pogo: folds
kbj4885: folds
CarrickBoy: calls $1
kass&tnames: calls $0.50
awm450: raises $1 to $2
CarrickBoy: calls $1
kass&tnames: calls $1
*** FLOP *** [6d Ad Kh]
kass&tnames: checks
awm450: bets $1
CarrickBoy: calls $1
kass&tnames: calls $1
*** TURN *** [6d Ad Kh] [4s]
kass&tnames: checks
awm450: bets $2
CarrickBoy: calls $2
kass&tnames: calls $2
*** RIVER *** [6d Ad Kh 4s] [8d]
kass&tnames: checks
awm450: checks
CarrickBoy: bets $2
kass&tnames: calls $2
awm450: calls $2
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CarrickBoy: shows [8h 2d 5h 7s] (HI: a straight, Four to Eight; LO: 6,5,4,2,A)
kass&tnames: mucks hand
awm450: mucks hand
CarrickBoy collected $10 from pot
CarrickBoy collected $10 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $21 | Rake $1
Board [6d Ad Kh 4s 8d]
Seat 1: pogo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: kbj4885 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: CarrickBoy (button) showed [8h 2d 5h 7s] and won ($20) with HI: a straight, Four to Eight; LO: 6,5,4,2,A
Seat 4: kass&tnames (small blind) mucked [2h 6s Tc Ah]
Seat 5: awm450 (big blind) mucked [Kc Kd 2c As]
Seat 6: ACS999 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Arcticman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: BonnieLo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: hi-lo skip folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: chaching folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[davim1]

I wouldn't bet the turn, you might get a free card, which you need since your oponents seem like calling stations, the only good river card besides the board pairing is a nine. I might fold the river when the board doesn't pair, depending on how likely I think it is that my oponent has a straight, but usually not. He obviously is a fish that just made his hand, but it's hard to say whether he just made low or not. Bet on the flop was good, you'll probably get reraised right away if someone has a set of aces, and they'll probably raise pre-flop.

Oh sorry, didn't read the board right. On the turn there is already a low possible, so the only thing youd like to see on the river is a paired board card. I would deffinitely check the turn.

[Split Suit]

very standard.

DO NOT LISTEN TO DAVIM'S ADVICE.

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]
very standard.

DO NOT LISTEN TO DAVIM'S ADVICE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, but I want to say a bit more. 3 way I think you are going to be in good enough shape on the average to bet. You don't want to give a naked FD or OESD a chance to beat you for your half for free and you will quarter a couple of lows fairly often or run into sets of 6s/stubborn 2 pair as well where you don't mind some bets going in.

As it stood, you were in fairly bad shape on the turn with about 25% equity 3 way no matter what the third guy's hand was. He probably did have a naked diamond draw and him putting in money there was just horrendous, which is what you want.

[dcasper70]

Standard pf, f, & r.
Turn could go either way depending on read. I lean towards betting.

You lost the hand, but got valuable info on these two. IMO, worth 3.5 bb.

Notes:
kass&tnames - Will call down from ep with 2pr & no redraws
CarrickBoy - Will open w/any 4 lows on button (2578ss)

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
very standard.

DO NOT LISTEN TO DAVIM'S ADVICE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, but I want to say a bit more. 3 way I think you are going to be in good enough shape on the average to bet. You don't want to give a naked FD or OESD a chance to beat you for your half for free and you will quarter a couple of lows fairly often or run into sets of 6s/stubborn 2 pair as well where you don't mind some bets going in.

As it stood, you were in fairly bad shape on the turn with about 25% equity 3 way no matter what the third guy's hand was. He probably did have a naked diamond draw and him putting in money there was just horrendous, which is what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was refering to the turn play as that is the closest call.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
i am an plo high player

[/ QUOTE ]tHeLefty - Flopping [6d Ad Kh] when you hold [Kc Kd 2c As] must be great in a pot limit high only game - and especially against only two opponents.

But in this game you're an under-dog to anybody with any two uncounterfeited low cards plus any two diamonds.

However, maybe nobody has a hand like that and so you bet the flop to see what happens, and after all, you do have a set of kings.

But the set of kings is flawed and for three reasons:
(1) You probably will only win half the pot if the kings do hold up or improve.
(2) Although you have flopped a set of kings, since there is an ace on the board, you only have middle set. People play aces in this game. If the ace pairs, your full house (underboat) may well lose to a better full house.
(3) You're holding one of your own outs (the ace).

And then there are those two damned diamonds on the flop...

At any rate you bet. (I would bet this flop too, regardless of the flaws, and hoping both opponents would concede the pot).

But your opponents do not concede the pot. They called your pre-flop raise and now they're calling your flop bet.

Now the question: Who is going to call you here?

I don't know the answer, but maybe you should think about it.

What the heck is going on? Who's staying in your pot after this flop? Could one opponent easily have a hand with a couple of diamonds plus a couple of low cards? Could the other opponent easily have a hand with an ace plus a low card that might aready have paired or that might pair on the turn, giving the holder two pairs, aces over, in which case you're dead if the board pairs on the river?

The turn is a brick for you - but not for one of your opponents who might just have made low and still has a diamond draw. And the other opponent could have made two pairs, aces over, on the turn.

Let's assume somebody has made low on the turn. In that case, you're betting two dollars to win one dollar. You hope nobody has a pair of aces. You also hope that if the board pairs, nobody has an ace plus a card the same rank as a board card. You also hope there's no diamond on the river.

It's rather doubtful anybody will make a straight, but you hope that doesn't happen too.

You're going to be stuck calling a bet on the final betting round if the river is a diamond, because you can't tell if the bet is coming from low or a diamond flush (or a straight).

Thus if you win, you probably will only win one buck - but if you lose, you probably will end up losing four bucks.

There aren't too many diamonds, but any non-pairing card eight and below enables a straight. Neither of these guys may have it, but then again, maybe they do - and because of the high low nature of the game and because you've been driving the betting yourself, you can't tell if a bet on the fourth betting round is coming from someone who has just made a better high than trips, or if the bet is coming from somebody betting the low.

I think you should dislike more cards on the river than you should like. You don't figure to lose to all the scare cards, but there are more scare cards than safe cards possible on the river.

The thing is, you're stuck calling the bet on the river, even if the river is a scare card. At least I'd be stuck calling the bet on the river. And if the guy in front of you bets, you call, and the guy behind you raises, then you're losing six bucks on the deal.... to possibly win only one.

Or if somebody folds to your turn bet, and the other guy has two unpaired low cards and two diamonds, then you win nothing from this betting round or the next. But you lose something on both the final betting rounds if the river is a diamond.

It's like getting freerolled, but you're the one who is freerolling your own self!

Buzz

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]


(2) Although you have flopped a set of kings, since there is an ace on the board, you only have middle set. People play aces in this game. If the ace pairs, your full house (underboat) may well lose to a better full house.


[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that if the Ace pairs on the turn or river then hero has virtually a lock on the high half with Aces full of kings right? Name for me any full house that is better than aces full of kings. I am just asking, because this sentence and another later in your post seems to indicate that you don't realize this.

I think you are moderately understating the strength of a set that is probably best on the flop. You are pretty even money against anything HU. I will grant that the turn card is bad and it is fairly likely that you are being at least somewhat freerolled, but I think the chances that you are quartering 2 lows or some combination of lows, 2 pair, and flush draws that you don't mind money going in on average. If the guy with a good low plus big wrap turned his hand face up, you wouldn't want to risk putting in 2 bets on the turn, but against range of hands at this limit you are pretty safe betting here.

Also, the best freerolling hand probably raises the flop, so I am not really scared of being hugely freerolled on the turn.

[Split Suit]

Cooker, please show respect to Buzz. He is one of the most knowledgable ppl of OHL on this site. he is just explaining how you have to think about it...and being that OP is coming from a PLO background, OP needs to understand the major changes in OHL, esp limit.

[Buzz]

Split Suit - Thanks, but I goofed on that one. Cooker is correct that if the board pairs with aces, Hero has the nuts.

Buzz