Aggressive play

[ThatJimGuy]

Against other aggressive players I am always getting scared off the pot. I always feel as if they have the bigger trips or something against my high pair.

I just got off a hand that I had 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] pre-flop

2 early callers, I call, the blinds call and check

Flop: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] t [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Ok, I got middle pair with a good kicker...no biggie

It checks to the first of the early pre-flop limpers, who bets. The second pre-flop limper folds.

I raised because I wanted to give my marginal hand a better shot (*** am I right here? ***)

Small blind folds, the Big Blind calls. The original better re-raises!

I meekly call. (**Should I FEEL meek here or should I be at ease that I did the right thing?**)

turn is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

ok I got a good draw that will win 35% of the time PLUS my whopping middle pair that could turn into trips. But, by this time, my trips might be beaten by three 10' for all I know. (Showing case signs of weak-tight right?)

Well, happy ending or no (I hit the flush), What worries me is my tendency to always throw these hands away because I don't want to get killed by the river.

What if I didn't hit my flush at the end and they bet? Should I have seen the end for a bet with middle pair?

thanks

Jim

[ChookMeister]

Your early limper is betting into a field of four other players, so it's unlikely they're bluffing. Lots of hands including a ten may have limped pre-flop here, including AT-JT. I'd be inclined to fold here, we're unlikely to have the best hand, and the pot is modest.

As played, I wouldn't be calling the river with just middle pair.

[Gazzbut]

Fold the flop. Even if you are ahead your hand is very vulnerable and with a couple of players left to act you could still get raised (which you did!)

Btw, your flush draw on the turn will hit(not win) around 19% of the time not 35%. 35% applies to a flush draw on the flop

[WalkAmongUs]

flop play is fine. when you pick up the flush on the turn, your pot equity is NOT 35%. 35% is if you flopped the flush draw. A flush draw on the turn will net you about 20% equity.

when you get reraised on the flop you are definitely beat but you have enough pot odds to call the reraise. when you pick up that flush draw then you can call on the turn.

the board is raggy so when you hit the backdoor flush theres nothing out there to really scare the bettor into checking the river so I would go ahead and check-raise the river.

[Harv72b]

I would have played the hand exactly the same, assuming that you got in at least one raise on the river after hitting your flush.

The EP limper probably does have you beat...it's unlikely that he's going to bet into 2 other opponents on a bluff, or with bottom pair (not unheard of, but unlikely). He could have something like J9 for the OESD, but I'd just as soon not raise on that belief. I'm raising because I have the button, I have position on him postflop, I have a good enough hand (middle pair/good kicker + backdoor flush) to see the turn, and I think I'm going to get a free card by raising this flop pretty often. However, flat calling the flop is not a terrible play, either, particularly if you are in fact fairly certain that EP has you beat right now, and are therefore not planning to call another bet on the turn unimproved. You should not be folding here getting 6:1 immediate + implied odds, especially considering the number of times a scare card causes the turn to be checked to you regardless of whether you raise or not.

As played, I'm folding the turn unimproved, but when you improve to a flush draw of course you have to call. As far as the river goes, unless I know my opponent to be a terrible LAG, I'm folding to a bet unimproved, and checking through unimproved if he checks to me. I'm a little torn on whether or not to raise an unknown if I catch an 8 or K on the river, primarily because I wouldn't feel comfortable folding to a 3bet.

[pig4bill]

Sounds like you guys play at some tight tables. At most of the low limit tables I play, a 3 bet after a flop raise is routine with any two cards. It's a cheap raise and they put anyone that may be making a probe raise to the test.

[Mygtar]

I like the way you played the hand. Raising is the correct thing to do in that situation. So isn't calling the re-raise.

Calling the turn is correct also.

Yeah we hit the flush, bet it out.

IMHO, if you missed the flush on the river calling a bet is dependent on the river card, the size of the pot, action, how many players etc.

Ed Miller has a set of DVDs out. In the "Protecting Your Hand" DVD he has this almost exact scenario and you played it according to his recommendations.

Best of luck,
Mygtar

[EGO]

*grunch*

I'd probably raise this myself. You've got a BDFD (1.5 outs), middle pair (2 outs), and an overcard (1.5 outs). You might have the best hand here, and the board is moderately coordinated. The pot has seven bets in it when it gets around to you.

The early limper who bets could have anything, but probably has a pair and/or a straight draw. I raise here for a few reasons:

1 - My hand may be best.
2 - I have position, and this might allow me to take a free card.
3 - I'm only giving my opponents 4-1 as opposed to 7-1. We'd like the gutshots/overcards to pay.

When the early limper 3-bets it it suggests that he isn't on a draw, and probably has me beat. I'm getting 11-1 at this point, and I clearly should at least call.

If I don't improve turn to either trips, two pair, or a flush draw, I'm often folding the turn.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like you guys play at some tight tables. At most of the low limit tables I play, a 3 bet after a flop raise is routine with any two cards. It's a cheap raise and they put anyone that may be making a probe raise to the test.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm speaking generally of online, small stakes games. The play there is usually much tighter than you would find at a B&M 2/4 (etc.) table.

[MoreWineII]

I think you played it well, obviously you're calling a turn bet. Calling a river bet unimproved is closer, and is pretty read-dependent as well as dependent on what card falls - for example a 9 kinda sucks and he's still willing to bet. Of course looking at the glass half full, it might've saved you a river bet.

You should never feel meek at the table imo. If you're making correct decisions and you know it, there's no reason to. Of course we all do at some time or another, and that's a great time to start posting hands.