How do you treat those monsters?

[Rorona]

***** Hand History for Game 5234667748 *****
$200 PL Omaha Hi-Lo - Saturday, September 23, 23:28:52 ET 2006
Table Table 105924 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 4: kiddjc3 ( $207.30 )
Seat 5: sbpxxx ( $49.43 )
Seat 6: patatina1909 ( $637.69 )
Seat 7: LeoLaw22 ( $124.24 )
Seat 9: Ellen1973 ( $94.58 )
Seat 10: StewpidSmart ( $238.42 )
Seat 1: Rorona ( $197 )
Seat 3: MTCALLS ( $61.29 )
kiddjc3 posts small blind [$1].
sbpxxx posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rorona [ As Ah 5s 2h ]
patatina1909 folds.
LeoLaw22 folds.
Ellen1973 folds.
StewpidSmart calls [$2].
Rorona calls [$2].
kiddjc3 calls [$1].
sbpxxx raises [$2].
StewpidSmart calls [$2].
Rorona calls [$2].
kiddjc3 calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 3c, 8h ]
kiddjc3 checks.
sbpxxx checks.
StewpidSmart checks.
Rorona bets [$7].
kiddjc3 folds.
sbpxxx calls [$7].
StewpidSmart calls [$7].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
>You have options at Table 95448 (No DP) Table!.
sbpxxx bets [$35.15].
StewpidSmart raises [$140.60].

I never know how to play these... if i bet the pot, i'll get not action in general. And with such a good draw i want people come into with weak hands. Was my bet too small? How much Should i bet there?

well, i ended up with this disgusting turn . What's your line here? results in white.
<font color="white"> Rorona is all-In [$186]
sbpxxx is all-In [$3.28]
StewpidSmart calls [$45.40].
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]
StewpidSmart shows [ Tc, Kc, Qd, Jh ] a straight, eight to queen.
Rorona shows [ As, Ah, 5s, 2h ] a flush, ace high.
Rorona shows 8,7,3,2,A for low.
&gt;You have options at Table 95448 (No DP) Table!.
sbpxxx doesn't show [ Ad, Qh, Td, 4c ] a pair of queens.
sbpxxx doesn't show 8,7,4,3,A for low.
Rorona wins $147.57 from side pot #1 with a flush, ace high.
Rorona wins Lo ($147.57) from side pot #1 with 8,7,3,2,A.
Rorona wins $74.65 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
Rorona wins Lo ($74.64) from the main pot with 8,7,3,2,A.


i got lucky, but my opponent played his hand far better since he had more equity, i sucked out. </font>

[Tuco]

In all PL games (HE or O) you should be raising preflop with big hands (as well as some others sprinkled in) to build pots where your opponents make big mistakes, rather than little ones if you keep the pot small.

I stopped after you limped PF. The hand will play totally different than it did if you rai.

Tuco.

[Cwichert]

I'm having no luck lately with these big hands, but you have to put in the max preflop and on flops like this.

[omaha]

you had a monster preflop, and a monster on the flop. On the turn you had a dog.

You limped pf, and then called a pot sized raise from a potsized bet, which was almost certainly either the nuts, or even worse for you, the nuts with redraws to bigger nuts.

SO, when you were a massive monster, you limped, and even allowed crap like 8899 odds to play. WHen you were a huge dog, you CALLED a bet.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm

According to sklansky, god, and myself, you need a much better hand to call than to bet. When someone bets it may be a made hand, a bluff, or a semi bluff. When someone calls, it cannot be a bluff, as the bet is saying 'i can beat a bluff' WHen someone raises pot, it is probably an idea to either pot it again (if you think you are on top), fold most of the time, or call if you have odds to continue (very rare if someone pots and no one else calls, or there are players acting after you)

My thoughts preflop. Raise, raise, raise, raise, or, alternatively, raise.

"but i dont get action when i raise", then, my friend, just keep raising any piece of crap that you are dealt until you start to get callers.

WIth a magic flop, pot, raise, raise, raise raise, raise, pot raise, pot raise, pot raise, until there are none of your chips on the table. You are a massive favourite to probably everything but 99A2. And how often are you up against 99A2?

From my many many centuries as a mathematics professor, let me let you in on a secret {or two}

There are only four aces in the pack. YOu hold two card with a little "A" in the corner, which means, among the 45 card you cant see, there are only two remaining aces.

After many other years of study, I concluded that if you hold one of the 2's, then there would only be three others left {please do not ever reveal this secret to anyone else playing party .10/25 with me) Thus, every time you have some part of the flop/turn/river, there is less chance anyone else has it.

Im only a newbie to PLO8, but if you played your monsters like that pf, and I was to nut peddle after, I would skin you alive. Any time you had a hand, and you limped like a wussy boy, you will either win the minimum, or worse still, allow me to draw out on you and then punish you for the maximum possible!. WHen I had a hand like that, I would pot, and most people will call with crud like A4JJ or A2 7 10. ANd if everyone keeps folding to psb pf, just keep raising pot.

Look, we all want to win the massive pot on the river, but if we win it earlier, it is much better than being drawn out on.

The only time I think its bad to max raise pf with hands like this is when i am against someone with stats like 50/1 . Well, if they only raise the best 1% of hands, I know they are probably holding AAs24 or similar. Thus, I just get out of their way, unless i have implied odds to bust them if I hit the flop hard. Once again, the error is not in raising the monster, but in not pot raising the monsters, the semi monsters, the mini monsters, and the tiny monsters, and the potential monsters.

The answer to your questions ' How do you treat these monsters- let them run wild- that is what monsters DO

[jjgoldy5]

Huge hand in O8... only if you play it right though.

The best part about this hand is you are in position!

RAISE RAISE RAISE all you can.

Occasionally, from EP at really aggressive tables you can limp/reraise this hand because it is tough to play out of position anyways and you want a lot of $$$ and few players in preflop.

Think about it like this. How often is 1 pair good for high in O8? Not very often in multiway pots. However, when you put in a big raise preflop, you will be limiting the field. This is an enormous hand heads up, and doesn't play bad 3 way, but you are probably dead for high without hitting a set more than 3 to the flop.

Limit the field, hopefully get your money in against a hand like A23x against which you are an enormous favorite.

In the hand you played, had you made a big pot sized bet preflop, chances are anything that connected with that flop (straight draw, set, or 2 pair) are folding, and you are left with an overpair against hopefully another A2 hand.

In position, if you flop two to a low (hopefully with a flush draw) with this sort of hand, don't slow play it if it is checked to you. Make them pay to out draw you.

This post was really scattered, but just raise the [censored] out of this hand preflop / postflop in position (and otherwise if possible). If you are unwilling to raise that hand preflop, you probably aren't raising anything. You need to raise hands for value before the flop, and also a few other hands for deception in order to let others make bigger mistakes postflop (more money in PF = bigger bets on flop, turn, river...exponential growth)

[Rorona]

ok, thanks for your answers. I've followed your advice lately making a lot of raises in late position and the results were huge, made about 1000$ the same night i read the answer lol. I play decently after the flop ( know when to fold) so the preflop raises added a lot to my earnings.

[omaha]

GLad to hear you are up $1k over a night. SOunds like you owe me, tuco and cwichert about $333 each for your tuition lessons, which will leave you with a nice tidy profit [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

btw, wtf did sbxx bet pot with a pair of queens and an A3 draw on the turn? Better play against your new friend a bit. Would this be party by any chance? I am currenly learning the ropes at the $25 tables