KISS album evaluation

[JJNJustin]

Evaluate in as much detail as you can, using facts as well as opinions, the evolution of KISS (you know, the rock band with make-up)through each phase of their career. Talk about the changes in members, the change in songwriting styles, peaks and valleys, etc. Try to keep the discussion along as intellectual and serious discussion as

[Dominic]

JJ, I appreciate the effort...but this is KISS you're talking about...dumb hooks, dumber lyrics...that's about it. (And I like them!)

Maybe if you got us started....

[JJNJustin]

I didnt realize that the server posted this, I was going to inquire with the mods first. Anyway, the OT was supposed to be:

Evaluate in as much detail as you can, using facts as well as opinions, the evolution of KISS (you know, the rock band with make-up)through each phase of their career. Talk about the changes in members, the change in songwriting styles, peaks and valleys, etc. Try to keep the discussion along as intellectual and serious discussion as possible. Who was the most musically talented? Why was the band so successful? Are they a truly a legend? What was your favorite song? Least favorite? Album? Member? Were you ever obsessed with KISS as a youth? Were they overrated? Did they suck? Do you think their music was ever written for them? Any trivia? Were they before their time? If you were a parent in the 70's, would let your children attend a KISS concert? Did they threaten society? Was deviance and devil-worship too obvious in their presentation? What is the impact of first time seeing a blood spewing fire breathing man dressed up in demonic clothing?

Do not crowd this thread with too many images or links. There are probably so many KISS links on the internet it is unimaginable.

I typically think of their career in phases:

1) KISS, Dressed to Kill, Hotter than Hell, Alive I
-struggling, very dark sounding-
2) Destroyer, Rock and Roll Over, Love Gun, Alive II
-more commercialized, rise to fame-
3) Singles, Dynasty, Unmasked, Killers, Elder
-over commercialized, demise, weird disco-
4) Creatures of the Night, Lick it Up, Animalize
-brief return, back to hard rock-
5) Last few albums before the reunion
-they didnt want to quit, nothing like beating a dead horse-

-J

[ChipWrecked]

IMO they jumped the shark at Love Gun. I was a huge fan until then, though. I will still listen to the 'original' stuff from time to time.

As a young adolescent, yes I was fairly obsessed, but not to the point of joining KISS Army or anything.

My favorite member was Gene, naturally. I detected a whiff of the ghey in Paul even then. Ace and Peter were sideliners to me.

I haven't seen the Gene Simmons TV show yet, but I get a chuckle from the ads for it. Gawd, if Ozzy can crash to Earth, I guess it can happen to anyone.

'Black Diamond' was my favorite song, 'Calling Dr. Love' was another I really liked. I hate the remix they issued on the Double Platinum album... though that is the only KISS CD I own, and I will pop it in if I'm alone in the car for a trip down ole memory lane.

I grew up in the Arkansas Ozarks. The horror that KISS inspired in the local Bible thumpers greatly fueled my enjoyment of playing their music good and loud in my car stereo as I passed by [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[charlie_t_jr]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO they jumped the shark at Love Gun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stayed with them up until "Unmasked". Love Gun actually had some of my favorite stuff on it, though it did start the decline. LG had some pretty good songs on there. In contrast to Chipwrecked, I looked foward to the contributions of Ace and Peter. Haven't heard the album in a long time but I remember Criss's Hooligan as pretty cool. Check out album track Almost Human. If that is really Ace on lead guitar, it definetely elevates him to more than just "sideliner".

What ever KISS had that made them what they were, can be found on the albums up to Love Gun. KISS Alive would have to be the ultimate. It presented the band in the way the had strived for on the first three albums. All though it's widely known not to be a truly "live" ablum, it is classic. What KISS was all about. Remember it's called KISS Alive...not "Live".

A little trivia from the Love Gun Album quoted from AMG:

"And there's an interesting story behind the demo of "Christine Sixteen." Simmons had befriended a then-unknown band in Los Angeles, Van Halen (then known as Mammoth), and had guitarist Eddie Van Halen and drummer Alex Van Halen play on the song's demo. Simmons was so impressed with Eddie's melodic lead that he made Kiss' guitarist Ace Frehley play it note for note on Kiss' version."

[JJNJustin]

In the beginning, Gene carried the band, his dark songwriting style on songs like "Watching You," and "She," really dominating. Gene tended to write songs based on 'riffs' as opposed to 'bar chords' whereas Paul's early efforts centered around bar chords. Paul's early efforts were rather weak, including the songs "Firehouse", "Strutter", and "Got to Chose". Ace showed alot of creative spark, and Peter was instrumentally by far the most solid (suprisingly) in the early going. Syncopation was a common theme in many of their songs, including the goofy "Parasite."

Paul kepted improving, influenced by Gene's song writing style, and by Destroyer was collaborating and writing hits like "God of Thunder" and "Detroit Rock City." Gene, however, had become seduced by rock band lifestyle and was writing primarily about his exploits with women. Songs like "Love 'Em and Leave'Em," and "Great Expectations", and "Ladies Room." Ace kept getting more polished, however, was also seduced by fame, as well as Peter, however during their prime here in 1976 the effects werent yet noticable. They had a real breakthrough with "Beth," a goofy love song that softened their demonic image and made them look humnan, winning favor and approval of the general public, who were skeptical about their previous efforts to penetrate their airspace, as well as their daughters pants.

Rock and Roll Over was Destroyer done over again, "Hard Luck Woman," being Peter's Beth-type ballad. Gene totally seduced by fame, Paul now writing most of the songs, and at much higher level than at the beginning, Ace and Peter partying, partly delusional on coke.

Love Gun was the last album of their "peak period", Neil Bogart overproducing them with a bizzilion promotional items aimed at kids. They took on a sort of super-hero like image, as their costumes and make-up had this appeal for children. Peter and Ace were so deluded on coke in 1978 that they threatened to quit and wanted to make solo albums, resulting in the 1978 solo albums which made the public unsure about their future. 1979's Dynasty was a dramatically overproduced album, featuring quasi-disco, Peter replaced on many of the tracks with studio drummers, ridiculously gaudy costumes, and their concerts were populated with a high percentage of very young children. The show became circus like and very scripted. In typical and atypical KISS fashion, "I was made for Loving You" became a top ten hit. Shortly after the tour the group was forced to out Peter Criss, who was so coked up and delusional he couldnt function, missed rehersals, etc. This marked the end of the peak era for KISS, although you could say it ended two years eariler.

-J

[mattsey9]

[ QUOTE ]

Evaluate in as much detail as you can, using facts as well as opinions, the evolution of KISS (you know, the rock band with make-up)through each phase of their career.

Talk about the changes in members,

[/ QUOTE ]
Never bothered me. Paul & Gene were the driving force behind the band. Peter and Ace were basically session players that got lucky to be around for the big score. Peter has to get credit for writing "Beth" though. Not my favorite, but that song brought the band a lot of cash, directly and indirectly.

[ QUOTE ]
Who was the most musically talented?

[/ QUOTE ]Gene & Paul. Ace could be good when he was sober.

[ QUOTE ]
Why was the band so successful?

[/ QUOTE ] The bass player flew over the audience spitting blood and fire. The guitar player shot roman candles out of his guitar above the crowd. Parents hated them. They played loud rock songs and everyone had fun.

[ QUOTE ]
Are they a truly a legend?

[/ QUOTE ]Yes. They weren't Lennon/McCartney, but their stage presence alone inspired countless future acts. Garth Brooks cites them as a big influence in what he was trying to accomplish live. [ QUOTE ]
What was your favorite song? Least favorite? Album? Member?

[/ QUOTE ] Detroit Rock City. Don't recall one in particular. Alive II. Gene. [ QUOTE ]
Were you ever obsessed with KISS as a youth?

[/ QUOTE ] A little. My older cousin used to cut their pictures out of the teen magazines and send them to me. She kept the Shaun Cassidy/Bay City Rollers pictures for herself. [ QUOTE ]
If you were a parent in the 70's, would let your children attend a KISS concert?

[/ QUOTE ]I wasn't a parent, but mine did prohibit me from seeing them at the Hulman Center. I did see them live in '96 for the first time.

[JJNJustin]

Which non-hit songs do you find interesting or enjoyable? I always liked the live cuts of "Parasite" and "Watching You" from the early days, especially the segue in to the guitar solo. "Save Your Love" on Dynasty was a cool track, and the unplugged version of "2000 man" just kicked all royal ass. Love theme from Kiss on the Original album was cool. "Flaming Youth" was a cool song, I always wondered why it never became a hit. "Radioactive" and "Back in the New York Groove" were cool. Ace and Peter in the early days were the magic behind that whole band.

Things/songs I hated: Hotter than Hell- I especially hated the line "You know she's gonna leave you well done." What am I, a steak?

"10,000 years"- seems like that song lasted that long. Of all the songs they use a cuss word in, they chose "Must have been a bitch while I was gone."

Peter Criss' singing on Black Diamond sounded like he was going to blow chunks. The corny slow intro combined with the chorus- "Oooh-oooh Black Diamond" was oh so lame.

Christine Sixteen, a good song, but I find the lyric, "When I saw you coming out of school that day, I knew, I knew, I got to have you, got to have you," creepy and pedophilic.

Love Gun- "You pulled the trigger of my... love gun." How retarded. Larger than life- "My love is larger than life. It's too much to hold, etc." Again, retarded. At least the early songs didnt have them singing about their penises.

Got to Chose, another early Paul Stanley special, the chorus is, "Woo Woo Woo, Got to Chose, Woo Woo Woo, Who's your Baby?" Woo woo woo, couldnt they think of anything better than this? Some of Paul Stanley's early song writing efforts were really lame. "Get the Firehouse, because she sets my soul on fire." Shouldnt they have made it, "Get out my firehose, and put out the fire in her firehouse?"

-J

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
Which non-hit songs do you find interesting or enjoyable?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, was 'God of Thunder' a hit? If not, probably that one. 'She' another, and some tracks from 'Hotter Than Hell' that I can't remember any more [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Interesting how few posts it took to split this thread into camps, the Gene/Paul and Ace/Peter; with each camp not a fan of the songs enjoyed by the other.

I had no idea there was a schizo element to the KISS fanbase.



Oh, one more thing I always thought was fun, though I was done with the band by then: the first comic book, which was guaranteed to have been printed with ink CONTAINING THE BAND'S ACTUAL BLOOD! Hilarious.

Also, anybody old enough to have watched the KISS 'Phantom of the Amusment Park' TV movie? I remember watching it, can't remember whether I was still a 'fan' or not, but shaking my young head thinking, "W.T.F. This is not rock and roll, man."

Pretty sure I sat up late listening to Led Zeppelin after that...

[pokerspite]

Their talent-to-success ratio is unmatched in the history of rock music.