Oh WTF just happened?

theflyingcow · #1 09-05-2006, 02:38 PM

SB is a huge calling station = free money (calls down with bottom pair bottom kicker, backdoor straight/flush draws, etc).

BB is a solid TAG

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB 3-bets, Hero says "WTF?!"

Another hand where I sort of felt this way...

UTG is the same TAG as the BB in the previous hand
SB is a semi-LAG

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises (whoops, misclick), UTG calls, SB calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB raises, Hero...

W. Deranged · #2 09-05-2006, 02:45 PM

I think hand #1 is an easy river cap. Think of it this way: you always have one of the two beat. You win 2 bets every time you're ahead (we assume since SB is terrible he's usually not folding) and only lose 1 max when behind. I think you're easily ahead here 1 out of 3. Hence it's an easy cap. Sure, you'll get shown A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] sometimes, but not more than two thirds of the time.

On hand number two you're in a bad spot. You are getting 6-1, which is enough to call with the OESD, but you are relatively likely to be drawing to a chop (or even almost dead to AJ), and UTG could still get more aggressive. The [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s will be dead some significant portion as well. And it's a one card draw, meaning you have lower implied odds. I'd lean toward a fold. If you get three-bet and end up putting in 3 BB here it's going to hurt, considering you aren't really 38-8 here, but more like probably 7-1 against effectively.

jba · #3 09-05-2006, 02:46 PM

hand 1. there are four cards to a straight on board. very easy to imagine one or both have a straight and the other a worse flush. a rivered set is also possible for SB if he sucks. you have to call and I see no reason to cap.

hand 2. what a bad flop raise, you say misclick so I guess we should believe you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

on the turn worst case is it gets capped and you pay four bets to win 17 immediate plus two+ on the river, so almost 5-1. best case is UTG calls and you pay two to win 13 plus two+ implied or 7.5-1. no reason really to think anyone has a flush draw but you could be drawing to a chop. it's an action board but I would tend weight it more to the 7.5-1 scenario and see the river.

callmedonnie · #4 09-05-2006, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think hand #1 is an easy river cap. Think of it this way: you always have one of the two beat. You win 2 bets every time you're ahead (we assume since SB is terrible he's usually not folding) and only lose 1 max when behind. I think you're easily ahead here 1 out of 3. Hence it's an easy cap. Sure, you'll get shown A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] sometimes, but not more than two thirds of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

Deranged, or anyone, can you help a brotha out? As usual Deranged posts something that looks to be brilliant but could be crap, because I don't understand it at all. I know its not crap. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

TheHip41 · #5 09-05-2006, 03:34 PM

hand 1, easy river cap. If the BB has the nuts, good for him. If you cap, the SB folds about never and a half.

hand 2, I just call and pray.

theflyingcow · #6 09-05-2006, 03:43 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, 5

.
[color=#666666]3 folds, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K

, 6

, 8

[color=#0000FF](3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T

[color=#0000FF](3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9

[color=#0000FF](3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets, [color=#CC3333]SB raises, [color=#CC3333]BB 3-bets, [color=#CC3333]Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
SB has 4d Jd (flush, jack high).
BB has Ad 8d (flush, ace high).
Hero has Kd 5d (flush, king high).
Outcome: BB wins 19.50 BB.

W. Deranged · #7 09-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Simple version:

We don't need to be ahead 50% of the time to make capping correct. We only need to be ahead over 33% of the time.

So cap if you think you're winning more than 1 in 3.

jba · #8 09-05-2006, 04:02 PM

maybe I'm underestimating the times we get called in two spots. really BB is going to have a flush here a lot of the time that he calls and Axdd is more likely than Qxdd, which is more likely than Jxdd, etc..

I'm not convinced SB will call two bets without a flush. maybe I'm grossly overestimating him.

theflyingcow · #9 09-05-2006, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not convinced SB will call two bets without a flush. maybe I'm grossly overestimating him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you are. He may also have a straight or 2-pair given the board.

TheHip41 · #10 09-05-2006, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SB has 4d Jd (flush, jack high).

[/ QUOTE ]

At least this [censored] got what was coming to him. Nice flop call [censored].