Legal Opinion Sought (Non Poker Related)

Moneyline · #1 08-20-2006, 03:26 PM

Mods can feel free to move this... but I want to post this here since I think it will get higher quality responses in this forum than it would in OOT.

On Friday I received a letter from my landlord notifying me that I would have to begin paying for electricity starting 9/18. Previously, all utilities were included as part of my rent. This is a non-trivial expense, as the outer walls of my apartment are non-heat resistant glass and I live in the desert. It takes a lot of power to cool my apartment when the sun is coming through the glass in summer, and conversely it takes a lot of power to warm my apartment in winter with uninsulated glass walls.

My current rent is higher than market value, but much of that extra cost was offset by the fact that utilities were included in my rent. This point was discussed when I originally signed my lease, and the fact that utilities are included in the rent was used as a selling point by the building manager when I was shown my apartment. In my view, under the new policy I will have to pay for electricity twice: once via my above market value rent, and once again directly to the power company. Since I was not informed of this change in policy when I resigned my lease, and since it was explained that part of my monthly rental payments covered utility expenses, I feel my rent should be lowered commensurate with the amount I have to spend on electricity each month for the remainder of my current lease.

I have checked my rental agreement, and I’m not sure exactly what to make of the relevant clause because it makes no mention of electricity, and I’m not sure what to make of the “similar residents” line. It states:

“The utilities customarily provided by the landlord are sewage, water, maintenance and waste removal. In case of error or modification, the renter shall provide and pay for the same utilities that similar residents are required to pay for.”

So do the residents of my building and I have a legal argument here?

Thanks for reading.

LImitPlayer · #2 08-20-2006, 03:54 PM

I'm not a lawyer but that line doesn't say anything about the landlord paying for hydro or gas. It also looks like they left themselves an out with the last part of the line

[ QUOTE ]
In case of error or modification, the renter shall provide and pay for the same utilities that similar residents are required to pay for.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your going to be stuck paying for it however since this is going to be a costly expense for you I would suggest you pay the $200 and go see a lawyer for consultation.

After 20 minutes you will either be -$200 and a lot happier or $-200 and pissed off because you will be paying for your hydro and gas.

pgaige · #3 08-20-2006, 04:17 PM

Keeping in mind that I still have a year of law school to go, and that I haven't read your lease or the relevant law wherever you live. If your rentor explicitly said that electricty would be included in rent upon signing the lease, you shouldn't have to pay. Nearly every lease in existence contains clauses that are at best unenforcible, and often illegal. The rentor's goal is that you don't bother to object (a perfect example is clauses that specify per day late fees if you're late in rent--few courts would ever actually enforce these). As the other reply said, however, avoiding any sort of legal consultation or litigation is important, both because of costs and headaches. If the electric bill is in your landlord's name, then its going to be up to him to actually go to court (and bear the relevant cost of hiring a lawyer) in order to collect, however. If it is in your name, then the problem is more complicated. I would suggest talking to your landlord and reiterating that this was a something you were told was included, and that was a basis for you signing the least. Worst case, you might just agree to mutually terminate the lease, and find some cheaper place. If not, then u might not have a choice about seeking some professional legal help. Just my partially educated two cents. Good luck.

pg

TruePoker CEO · #4 08-20-2006, 04:27 PM

I have practiced a lot of landlord-tenant law. Do not screw around, any competent landlord tenant lawyer in your town could tell you where you stand in 15 minutes. The answer is likely pretty clear ... but you need to know the local laws AND practices and procedures .... otherwise you could come home and find your stuff sitting on the curb perhaps.

Do NOT seek advice here, it will be unreliable. Get a referral from your local bar association for a tenant-side attorney.

Lawman007 · #5 08-20-2006, 05:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have practiced a lot of landlord-tenant law. Do not screw around, any competent landlord tenant lawyer in your town could tell you where you stand in 15 minutes. The answer is likely pretty clear ... but you need to know the local laws AND practices and procedures .... otherwise you could come home and find your stuff sitting on the curb perhaps.

Do NOT seek advice here, it will be unreliable. Get a referral from your local bar association for a tenant-side attorney.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. It is amazing to me how many people will ask for tax or legal advice from a bunch of anonymous bozos on the internet. LOL

whitepotatoe · #6 08-22-2006, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have practiced a lot of landlord-tenant law. Do not screw around, any competent landlord tenant lawyer in your town could tell you where you stand in 15 minutes. The answer is likely pretty clear ... but you need to know the local laws AND practices and procedures .... otherwise you could come home and find your stuff sitting on the curb perhaps.

Do NOT seek advice here, it will be unreliable. Get a referral from your local bar association for a tenant-side attorney.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best advice you will get on this board. Good luck.

Moneyline · #7 08-29-2006, 09:04 PM

In case anybody cares about this, my landlord agreed today to give me a $100 per month rent concession for the remainder of my lease in exchange for me paying for electricity.

I had a very inexpensive consultation with a lawyer, as per TruePokerCEO's suggestion. I then called my landlord and told him that I would take legal action against him if he didn't ammend my lease. It worked. Unfortunately, it's only an oral agreement, and browsing the internet reveals that this guy has a history of screwing people, but overall I'm happy with how everything has played out so far.