I called anyway... LC

KingOtter · #1 08-21-2006, 10:42 PM

As I mentioned elsewhere I'm going through some weak-tight recovery. A lot of times on here we see threads and hands where Hero called down and still lost, even though calling down was recommended. Plus we're hearing a lot of gloom concerning downswings, bad attitude, doomswitches, the like.

When I noticed my weak-tightedness I vowed to call down more times when I thought I was beat. When I swore I might as well just pack it in because I'm done, instead, I called.

I've been very surprised. There are much much worse players out there than I imagined. Horrible players. I have absolutely been giving them wayy too much credit.

Hands like this:

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins 4 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Couple days ago I'm sure I would have folded that flop.

Also like this:

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG has Ad Qs (one pair, nines).
Hero has Ac Ks (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.75 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This last one is something I'm seeing a lot of lately. Whiffed overcards firing multiple barrels.

Now, there should be some criteria here. This isn't a Brag thread. You should:

1. Have a better hand then the aggressor when he aggresses.
2. Call down anyway
3. Drag the pot.

This isn't about making your flush on the river, or hitting your gutshot. It is value betting that gets push-back on boards where it is not looking good for your hand.

So let me see them... let's see your call-downs that won. Let's see how bad the opposition is, thinking they can push us off our hands.

Warning: I don't necessarily advocate playing like I did in this thread. I was just doing an exercise to squeeze some weak-tight out of me.

KingOtter · #2 08-21-2006, 10:56 PM

Okay, I had some explanation in my second example but my kids pulled me away and I forgot to go back to it... my second example I feel is an example because of the range I put him on when he raised me on the flop. I put him on QQ-AA and thought I was toast... if he had bet the turn I might have folded.

Anyway, sorry for leaving that out.

bennyhana · #3 08-21-2006, 10:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I had some explanation in my second example but my kids pulled me away and I forgot to go back to it... my second example I feel is an example because of the range I put him on when he raised me on the flop. I put him on QQ-AA and thought I was toast... if he had bet the turn I might have folded.

Anyway, sorry for leaving that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, in the future, leave it out. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] It makes no sense. Did you forget to post a hand or something?

milesdyson · #4 08-21-2006, 11:11 PM

KO, that first flop call is really bad

bozlax · #5 08-21-2006, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1. Have a better hand then the aggressor when he aggresses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, KO, if you have a better hand than the aggressor when he aggresses, shouldn't you aggress back?

Oh, wait, this is a criterion for posting a hand in this thread? See, I'm not so slow.

KingOtter · #6 08-21-2006, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. Have a better hand then the aggressor when he aggresses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, KO, if you have a better hand than the aggressor when he aggresses, shouldn't you aggress back?

Oh, wait, this is a criterion for posting a hand in this thread? See, I'm not so slow.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you know you're ahead, for sure... but if you don't and the range you're THINKING he's betting is ahead of you, but you're not sure.

Oh well, guess I couldn't explain it well enough.

KingOtter · #7 08-21-2006, 11:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I had some explanation in my second example but my kids pulled me away and I forgot to go back to it... my second example I feel is an example because of the range I put him on when he raised me on the flop. I put him on QQ-AA and thought I was toast... if he had bet the turn I might have folded.

Anyway, sorry for leaving that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, in the future, leave it out. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] It makes no sense. Did you forget to post a hand or something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol yes.

KingOtter · #8 08-21-2006, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KO, that first flop call is really bad

[/ QUOTE ]

He was 90/0/2.5. There were others at the table that if they had done it I probably would have folded.

oh well. Maybe I shoulda tossed it into the NC thread and said expert and left it at that.

milesdyson · #9 08-21-2006, 11:52 PM

i didnt see any stats in the op. maybe he's bluffing enough but its the other two players that you have to worry about as well.

KingOtter · #10 08-21-2006, 11:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i didnt see any stats in the op. maybe he's bluffing enough but its the other two players that you have to worry about as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't put them in because it wasn't a 'critique my play' thread, I was trying to do something else, but I guess that got lost..