general questions about LO8

[davebwell]

I've read O8poker.com material and some of the material in Super System 2. I started playing yesterday following the starting hand advice from these sources. After about 300 hands I have a VPIP of around 14. I know 300 hands gives only a little more information than 0 hands but was wondering what typical VPIPs are.

Question 2. O8poker advocates playing hands that are likely to scoop. SS2 talks about how unlikely it is to scoop in loose games and suggests entering pots with strong high or low potential in loose games. Obviously scooping is the best but under what conditions should you enter with high only potential or low only potential. The limited observation I have makes me think that if 4 players are in a pot in front of me three are most likely playing lows and one has a good high. Therefore, high hands have a lot more potential for a clean 1/2 pot and low hands have more potential for quartering.

Any information and comments would be most valuable. Thanks for your time.

[T50_Omaha8]

About question 2:
Just play quality hands. Going for 1/2 is usually only profitable with a big starting pot and an uncounterfeitable draw (or a draw other than A2, ie A3 on a 27K board, 23 on a A79 board, etc). If the pots really are that multiway, then getting quartered should rarely be much of a concern. Four-handed obviously pays 1:1, and those times you get the full half (which should be more often than getting quartered) will more than make up for times you get quartered.

And about playing high, high-only hands are mainly speculation, and often won't even be shown down if a low makes. With KQQJ or KQJT, what boards do you have the nuts to show down where a low makes? Q2676 with KQQT or 7894K with KQJT? These situations are pretty uncommon. A high card full house usually scoops, since all three other cards (one of which will be paried) must be low. And high wraps usually hit only on high flops, as do high two pair hands. And you'll also have access to the secret gold mine of unskilled opponents stupidly chasing a runner-runner low--a situation where they are basically giving you 85% of all new money put into the pot.

As for the opponents hands you're up against, have you ever sat and dealt 10 4 card hands out of a deck over and over? There are relatively few insances where a flop will be five-handed and everybody will be playing quality starting hands. What I'm saying is that the T754 your opponent shows down looks mighty glamourous when he flopped the nut straight, which held up, and luckily got the opponent's nut low counterfeit on the river to scoop. But 95% of the time the fourth and fifth best preflop hands are garbage that will pay you greatly in the long run--they are nothing to worry about. Just play quality, tight aggressive poker and the chips will come your way.

[Dire]

Playing 6-max could help you start to get a better feel for hand values. A 14% VP$IP is rather low and it seems likely that you're not adjusting your play too much based on the number of players and your position. In late position after numerous limpers you can go along with a very wide range of hands. Hand values run very close in Omaha. If you take the trash example T50 gave (T754 rainbow), it still has 30% equity (..heads up) against AA23ds for example.

[T50_Omaha8]

And just to add on to what Dire said, hand values are nowhere near as cut-and-dry as they are in Hold em. In loose LO8, for example, A234 is a solid starting hand, whereas heads up I believe it is either a coinflip or a slight dog to random cards. As a rule of thumb, the more multihanded it is, the more you want a 'specialty' hand that is somewhat speculative in nature, whereas HU or SH you want a hand that hits a whole lot of flops--although not spectacularly every time. Take AQT2 for example. This isn't a great full ring equity monster, but heads up this will hit almost any flop to some extent, which tends to give it an edge over all high-card or all low-card hands.

[bearly]

thoughtful answers, t50. thanks...........b

[davebwell]

Thanks for your comments. I have loosened up a bit but am having a rough go of it. I am not sure how much is variance and how much is poor play. I have 1200 hands of .25/.5 LO8 now and am down about 2.2 BB/100. I am sure I have missed some bets and given up a few bets when I should have folded. I've also been sucked out on with runner runner flush on a high only board by people with third pair on what seems to be a disproportionate frequency. Next weekend, I plan on reviewing my hands and posting a few. The link to the converter in the FAQ didn't work when I tried it earlier. Is there a converter for O8 that works for Full Tilt?