Politics Forum

Mason Malmuth · #1 08-04-2006, 06:34 PM

Hi Everyone:

Here's what we plan to do concerning the Politics Forum:

1. We do plan to restart it, probably around the middle of August. But first we need to make sure that everything has calmed down and the posting can resume in a civil and courteous manner.

2. We do encourage vigorous debate. For instance whether the Israeli response was too strong is a fair topic, just like whether Hezbolah imbeds itself among civilians causing civiliain casulties is also a fair topic.

3. What we will not tolerate are posts designed to foment hate. These include posts, which are sometimes very politely written, that distort facts, create new facts, make references to very bad things that the poster quickly distances himself from but nevertheless leaves the idea out there, and often link to other sites that are clearly hate sites.

Our concern at Two Plus Two is that we have many young people (that is young compared to me) reading these boards who do not know or understand the history, and who could be misled down the road to hatred. Everyone needs to keep in mind that www.twoplustwo.com is a site designed to discuss poker and other forms of gambling. We are not designed nor do we have the capabilities to handle these other subjets as well as some other sites on the Internet. Thus if we error, we plan to error on the conservative side and make sure that this forum will not be a breeding ground for hatred. This will be the case whether you are pro Israeli, pro Palestinian, or pro some other subject.

So again, we do plan to reopen the Politics Forum, but we will wait until we feel that everything has calmed down. Expect to see it back up around the middle of August.

Best wishes,
Mason

flair1239 · #2 08-04-2006, 06:49 PM

Mason,

Then do not reopen the forum. The things you mention not to do are common in politics. People distort facts all the time, and suggest possbilities all the while distancing themselves from the ideas. Learning to recognise this stuff is a necessary step to becoming a "critical" thinker.

Also in this day and age with all the good information out there, being ignorant of history should not be a shortcoming that is accomodated.

My opinion is, if the forum is going to be heavily moderated... save yourself the headache and just don't reopen it.

The last thing you need is one more self-righteous primadonna threatening a lawsuit.

LinusKS · #3 08-04-2006, 06:55 PM

Yikes. If you're concerned about young people, you ought to take a look at the OOT forum. I believe the average age there is 12.

If you're going to ban people because they "distort facts" or "create facts" that's totally unenforceable. The most that you can ask for is that people avoid name-calling and personal attacks. Beyond that, you're just asking for trouble. If people could agree on the facts, we wouldn't need politics in the first place.

Just my .02.

Mason Malmuth · #4 08-04-2006, 06:59 PM

Hi flair:

You make a very good point. We will definitely consider what you are saying before making our final decision.

Best wishes,
Mason

DVaut1 · #5 08-04-2006, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion is, if the forum is going to be heavily moderated... save yourself the headache and just don't reopen it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heavily moderated is one thing; I think the forum could work wonderfully, even if heavily moderated. Having said that, I think this is a great caveat:

"If people could agree on the facts, we wouldn't need politics in the first place."

There's no politics forum (nor any person) anywhere on the internet (or in the world at large) that has a monopoly over the truth and the facts. As mentioned, we wouldn't need a Politics forum if 'the facts' we're clear and universally-agreed upon. I hope 'dishonesty' and 'fact-distortion' aren't what's moderated, as such a standard is nothing if not subjective.

RR · #6 08-04-2006, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Then do not reopen the forum. The things you mention not to do are common in politics. People distort facts all the time, and suggest possbilities all the while distancing themselves from the ideas. Learning to recognise this stuff is a necessary step to becoming a "critical" thinker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody here is running for office. I think it is possible to discuss politics without engaging in politics. Just because someone runnig for office distorts facts there is no reason to repeat boldfaced lies just because many out there can't tell the difference between truth and fiction.

Howard Beale · #7 08-04-2006, 07:15 PM

IMO, a Politics forum that doesn't allow everything isn't really a politics forum. To repeat myself I'll state again that the best way to confront hate speech/racism/bigotry and distortion of facts is to confront/refute it when it's put forth.

However: Mason is in a tough spot here and his concerns are understandable. He could just as well have left the Politics forum closed and be done with it which is probably what I would have done if I were him. Apparently he wants to be accomodating to 2p2 posters who want to discuss politics as he has been with posters who want to discuss all these other many and varied topics appearing to the left but he wants to suggest some guidelines and forewarn posters of what may get them banned. Towards that end he is trying, I think, to define the indefineable. I don't know if it will work or not but we'll have to see how it goes. Political discussion has turned out to be just what my father told me it was and now I know why he was right when he suggested to never talk about it (or religion) if I wanted to keep my friends.

DVaut1 · #8 08-04-2006, 07:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then do not reopen the forum. The things you mention not to do are common in politics. People distort facts all the time, and suggest possbilities all the while distancing themselves from the ideas. Learning to recognise this stuff is a necessary step to becoming a "critical" thinker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody here is running for office. I think it is possible to discuss politics without engaging in politics. Just because someone runnig for office distorts facts there is no reason to repeat boldfaced lies just because many out there can't tell the difference between truth and fiction.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, for one, have an especially difficult time discerning between truth and fiction, particularly in political discourse. Is there some secret to telling the difference between the two that I don't know about?

Even conceding that I have trouble separating truth from fiction, I don't feel that I need a third-party deciding what's 'truth' and what's a 'boldfaced lie' for me.

By-Tor · #9 08-04-2006, 07:28 PM

Mason et al are doing the right thing, politics was wayyyy out of control.

I mean, come one....you had people from OOT saying "damn, them freaks are crazzzy"...

That should tell you something was wrong right there..

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Phil153 · #10 08-04-2006, 07:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For instance whether the Israeli response was too strong is a fair topic, just like whether Hezbolah imbeds itself among civilians causing civiliain casulties is also a fair topic.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sentence itself is an example of what you want people to stop doing.

I agree with flair. The truth is ugly, and feelings are strong on both sides. Both sides have and are committing horrible atrocities, and neither have sufficient justifications. But if you keep censoring discussion because of strong pro-Isreali bias, it will just keep coming up. I think you need to either forbid discussion of this conflict/the entire middle east (a very reasonable approach imo), or leave the politics forum closed while it's ongoing.

(I have never posted about the current conflict BTW, just an outside observer).