BS donk

[sharpie]

38/20/3.9 over 170, but alot of that is due to his 20 wtsd over the sample.

Limit: $5/$10
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero???

[aargh57]

I think I call down now. Although he may have a J he may also be donking w/ Overcards thinking that it's now likely he's got the best hand with A high. The problem with raising is that you're putting in 2 bets now and if he 3 bets you can't call. Why not call,call and get to see showdown when it'll still cost 2 bets.

[Jules Diodore]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I call down now. Although he may have a J he may also be donking w/ Overcards thinking that it's now likely he's got the best hand with A high. The problem with raising is that you're putting in 2 bets now and if he 3 bets you can't call. Why not call,call and get to see showdown when it'll still cost 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi aargh57,

An argument against calling here is that a pair of Tens is still vulnerable to 9 possible overcards and possibly more cards if villain has a flush draw with overcards. Calling would be a more reasonable play with a pair of Kings or Aces. I am not saying that I would call here just that there are arguments for raising. If I had a pair of Sevens I would definitely raise here and if I had a pair of Kings I would definitely call.

However, there's a simple argument for just calling too. This villain is fairly aggressive and if we had a read (or at least thought it likely) that he would fire again on the river regardless of his final hand strength then given the small pot there might be more value in just calling.

Regards,

Jules Diodore

[Buckmulligan]

I raise and call down to a three bet. I'm not crapping my pants all that hard versus this guy's range.

[Trivial]

There are a lot of possible draws on this board and until we are three-bet we may assume that we are ahead of hands like A3/A4, medium pocket pairs and any four flushes, which are of course a huge range of plausible holdings.

So I like a turn raise here.

If we do get three-bet then I would be leaning towards a fold if the opponent were more passive, but against a chap with a 3.9 aggression factor then calling down becomes mandatory I think.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise and call down to a three bet. I'm not crapping my pants all that hard versus this guy's range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I don't know whether to credit ILP or what but this forum has become so God damn obsessed with "always call down, they always bluff the river, get to SD cheap" posts it's ridiculous. You have the best hand so damn often, just raise, rarely get 3bet and bet the river. I'm starting to wonder how the [censored] my AF is lower than most here.

[sharpie]

I did raise and calldown his 3 bet, was just wondering whether he had air alot that will fold immediately but might fire again on the river. If I did call the turn it would be with the intention of raising the river.

[Caddy_4_Life]

[ QUOTE ]
I did raise and calldown his 3 bet, was just wondering whether he had air alot that will fold immediately but might fire again on the river. If I did call the turn it would be with the intention of raising the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do think the turn raise/calldown is the spot for it. I think he rarely holds a Jack here (10-15% of the time). The vast majority of the time you'll see a picked up FD, low pair, pp, or air. He calls down with low pair, pp, call the turn raise with the FD, sometimes air (if he has one or two overcards) so yes, I like turn raising here.

-Caddy

[Nick C]

Versus a draw, I think I'd prefer to call, since I'm thinking this Villain will most likely follow up his turn donkbet by firing again on the river and I don't feel like walking into a river checkraise on some cards. (I guess I'm saying that, versus a draw, I think I kind of prefer for this Villain to have the initiative on the river.)

Versus a worse made hand, though, I'd want to raise, and I suspect Villain is going to have one of those more often than he'll have a jack.

There is this question, though: What's this guy who so far has a 3.9 AF doing check-calling the flop? And what did that second jack do besides make a donkbet practically "standard"?

So I am a little confused. And, FWIW, we are risking more than we hope to gain with our raise.