4/180 on Stars, My Game and Micro Limit Theory, 1000th Post (Long)

[AceLuby]

So for Nath's 5000th post he wrote on how he is growing as a poker player. I figured this type of thing should be done with these hallmark posts, so this being my 1000th post I figured I would try to analyze my game and maybe try to be insightful. Now, I’ve only been posting for a few months, but I feel with my 1000 posts I’ve learned a ton.

Short Background

I guess I should start with a small poker background. I emphasize short because people probably won’t care, or read it. Let’s just say I’ve been playing hold em for about 5 years throughout college (where I was a math and CS double major) and play mostly $4/180’s on Stars.

I started posting a few months ago because I saw somewhere that Raymer was quoted saying he would never have won the WSOP if it wasn’t for 2+2 books and twoplustwo.com. I visited the website and read for a couple of weeks before subscribing. I have written some of the stupidest things on this site and have argued against some of the greatest minds here. I was wrong 99% of the time, and I hated being wrong. It inspired me to buy and read HOH1 & 2 (which I recommend to anyone who has read this far and hasn’t purchased it) and have been making better recommendations. Not only that, but ideas that are different from the norm (when that does happen) I can back them up intelligently. At least I hope.

After subscribing I went on a streak winning about $150 in SNG’s and my first $4/180 tourney, bringing my Stars roll to roughly $400, which with $40,000 in debt has more $ in it than my savings account. I know it isn’t much, or really anything at all compared to the best that post on here, but it’s a start. I’ve grinded that up to about $700.

I feel as though I am just defining my game and found that there is a bill in the Senate right now that would make online poker illegal. Please call your senate representative (DO NOT EMAIL) and let them know how you feel about this bill. Ok, now back to poker.

My Game

I like to think of myself as a TAG, but I feel I am becoming LAGgier by the day. I read Nath’s 5000th post a little while back and I figured I would try some of these LAG strategies out. Surprisingly, they worked!!! I started playing my position more, and started playing situations and the board as opposed to my two cards. The last 20 tournaments I have roughly a 400% ROI (which I know is not nearly a high enough sample, yeah for variance). I would like to discuss some of the observations I have made in the micro limit (<$10) NLHE MTT’s, and more specifically those darn 4/180’s on Stars.

Early Game

I play REALLY TAG here. I do this because of the landmine effect in these micro limit MTT’s. Big hands get paid off big early, so I wait for them and pounce on my victim. If I happen to get beat, I shake my head, tell my self it’s a low limit game and fire up another. This play gets me to the first break about 60-75% of the time with anywhere from 20 – 50 BB’s.

In the early game I’d say you have to take advantage of these facts:

1) 70%+ of the players are donks

2) My opponents usually don’t understand pot odds, so I give them bad odds when I think I have the best hand.

3) Lead, lead, lead… Seriously, I’ve found this to be the most helpful. If I am last to act, lead for a ½ pot raise. Obviously not 100% of the time, but if I’m going to error, I like to do it on the side of aggression. In HOH1 I read this, and being a math major this made the most sense to me. If it works once w/ the worst hand it makes up for 3 more times that it doesn’t. I’m telling you it is WAY more successful than that. Mix it up early, especially when given the green light.

4) Play your big hands strong. There is no reason to slowplay at the micro level. In general, just being aggressive builds and wins a lot more pots than trying to extract chips w/ a slowplay or a check raise. I have also seen that players generally pick up on slowplays and check raises a lot faster than just pure aggression, especially early.

Middle Game

What is middle game? I’d say after the first break, definitely when antes start. Anyway when I make it this far I change gears. I start loosening up and opening pots. People say this all the time, but what does this mean? It doesn’t mean unbridled aggression w/ any two (well, sometimes it does). What it does mean is controlled unbridled aggression.

Position starts to mean more than the cards you hold. I like to play, and sometimes only play my position. If it’s folded to me in HJ, CO, or on the button, I am given the green light to take the pot right there. Remember, that even though the green light has been given, the players that have to act behind are also important. I pick on players that I can easily identify as very tight. The players that make it to the antes are usually tight nits and don’t change gears at this level, so I find those players and attack. They will give their chips away w/ out a premium holding. This is why raising in these situations is so profitable. If you can steal 2-3 hands every 2 orbits, which is not unlikely as you should have about 6 tries (HJ,CO,B all x2) you should keep afloat as the blinds and antes go up. This also gives your premiums a chance to get paid off when you do get hit big, because you raise all the time.

What hands are openers? I’d say any 2. You have to realize that raising w/ 78s on the button on a steal is not a ton better than holding 32o. In both situations you are looking to take the pot PF. So if I find a situation where it’s probable my opponents will fold to a raise, I put it in. If I’m wrong and someone comes OTT of me, I’m out (w/ bad odds that is). Granted, 78s is better when called, but because I am in position if it gets checked to me I can put out a ½ pot bet and still win the pot a good portion of the time, whether or not I hit. This is why I advocate the any 2 at this level.

Things to remember in the middle game:

1) Most of the players left are either tight nits, calling stations that got lucky, or the occasional player like yourself. Learn to identify these players and pick on those tight nits.

2) Aggression is still paid off

3) Position is key

4) Steal, steal, steal…

Late Game

So I’ve made it to the final 2-3 tables, now what? I do have to say that this is probably the worst part of my game. In my last 10 final 2 tables experience I haven’t placed better than 3rd, but no worse than 16th.

I have been trying the LAG approach that got me this far (usually I’m in top 5 chip stacks, no worse than slightly below avg), but it doesn’t work as well here. I seem to get restolen on a lot in the late game. Obviously, it’s the fact that I’m playing better players at this point and they are probably doing what I have been doing for the last hour. The advice I would give someone else is to play 1-3 table SNG’s to practice, so I think I might try that again. I just don’t feel the same playing one of these as I do the end of a tourney. Everyone starts w/ the same chips, everyone has 50+BB, and I feel these are mini tournaments w/ each section (early, middle & late game) at a sooner time with no real 2 table play. I guess real practice would to keep playing these and work out strategies that work for me, in the real situations.

If anyone read this far I really want to thank you. This is my first real attempt to put something together on this site that may be insightful, so I hope it was somewhat successful. I would appreciate any comments and again, if you read this far, cheers!!

[JohnFR]

Nice post AceLuby, I haven't played a whole lot of the 180/4's, but my friends do, and one day we were comparing stats, and he noticed that he had a much smaller final table to final 2 table ratio than I did. I had something like 4 or 5 final tables out of 6 or 7 times I made it to the final 2 tables. But we also noticed that I had a much higher chance of busting in 19-27. I think that the reason is I am willing to go busto right before the money to really accumulate some chips. I have found that there are still plenty of tight nits trying to slide into the money, and even some TAG's at the final 3 tables, and I have found it very valuable restealing from the people I think will fold.

Once you get in the money though play seems to open up considerably, until you are down to around 6 players at each table, so I try to slow down on my aggression from 18-12 people then turn the heat back on once we get to 12, until we FT, then I slow down until it gets short handed again. The one thing I notice is right after we get to 2 tables, if I get a hand I get some serious action from some crazy hands because of my prior aggression with 19-23 players. That is the reason I slow down because all of a sudden all the TAG's and nits are ready to give me action because they think I am some silly LAG. What they fail to realize is I have converted to a TAG for a little.

I guess my suggestion is in the late game you should be really changing gears often.

[AceLuby]

Thanks for the reply. I have been experimenting lately w/ my later game (Around 30 players or so left) and I think my problem is that I'm playing too loose when I get ITM. Many players once they are ITM will start to LAG it up and play with me when there are 13-18 players left, to try to accumulate chips. I should be looking to resteal here, and play a generally TAG game and then switch it back up to the LAG style that has been working once we get around the FT bubble. I will definitely have to try it.

Anyone else see anything different in the 4/180's or any of the other micro limit tournies (<$10)? I'm really trying to hone my game here as I think there is a lot of $ to be made at this level w/out risking a big chunk of my BR.

[footnbaseball]

Very good post. I strongly agree that in the low stakes, you have to play tight early on unless your getting really good odds. One huge hole in my game that I think I've been able to plug is playing things like low pairs and suited connectors early on without good situations. These hands ARE playable early on, but you should be in position, with a good amount of limpers in the pot, or callers if there has been a raise, so that you have the necessary implied odds.

I also know what you mean about the endgame. I think it's the most difficult part of tourny play to learn, and is probably my weakest section of the tourney as well.

All in all, very good post.

[FeNeF]

[ QUOTE ]
Very good post. I strongly agree that in the low stakes, you have to play tight early on unless your getting really good odds. One huge hole in my game that I think I've been able to plug is playing things like low pairs and suited connectors early on without good situations. These hands ARE playable early on, but you should be in position, with a good amount of limpers in the pot, or callers if there has been a raise, so that you have the necessary implied odds.

I also know what you mean about the endgame. I think it's the most difficult part of tourny play to learn, and is probably my weakest section of the tourney as well.

All in all, very good post.

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO suited connectors are pretty much junk early in a $4 tournament.

Small pairs on the other hand are excellent.

[DonT77]

Nice read. From the quality of your recent posts I'm sure you'll be playing much higher buy-ins quite soon. And, don't worry about posting something that is wrong or about a different line that you've been thinking about, that is how we learn. GL.

[Absolution]

I really don't find the middle level that nitty in these low buy tournaments. I find people go too far with the stealing (every round multitple times) and then can't get away a lot of the time because when they are raised they forget that they were stealing, look at the marginal hand they are holding and decide to push it (one mistake being they wait for marginal hands to steal, which then tempts them to call/push). The same thing with defense. If you are the SB and raise it up, there is a good chance the BB will push over top with hands like K9o. I suspect the nits get paid off for quite a while longer in these tournaments than in the higher buy in tournaments. Also, many players in the blinds and in late position will call large raises with marginal holdings because they have the "I'm going to hit and stack him" syndrome. They forget that for every time it works they end up throwing it away or getting stacked themselves another 20 times.

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice read. From the quality of your recent posts I'm sure you'll be playing much higher buy-ins quite soon. And, don't worry about posting something that is wrong or about a different line that you've been thinking about, that is how we learn. GL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm really trying to move up in my skill and feel that I am. Since I started posting here I have turned $5 into $600, which says a lot to the big posters here who have helped out and flamed me to a crisp.

Regarding suited connectors above. I feel if you can see a flop for 20, 30, or 50 even I say go for it. These are hands to stack those really dumb players who slow play QQ+ and when you miss they are easy to let go of. I play them nearly the same as low PP, I'm looking to hit big for cheap (combo draws, 2 pr, etc)

[Sherman]

How tight is the early TAG game? Strict HOH v.I strategy? Tighter than that? Looser?

Shermn

[Brandonjp13]

Nice post very well crafted and thought through. I agree with almost everything you said, I think you may be my new hero :P. I need to work on my middle game more, I always end up in jacked situations for stealing(AKA huge stacks to my left or a raise and or callers infront of me when i'm in postion) but I definatly could take some advice from this. As for the reply about Suited Connectors, they're really only as good as connectors especially earlly on, the number of people who call with K2s cause it's sooottted are overwhelming.