($55s) QJs, feeling frisky post flop.

DevinLake · #1 07-25-2006, 02:06 PM

Some days I'm just sick of playing weak tight and like to mix it up a bit. So, that's what I did on this flop. Now, the river has brought a difficult decision. Thoughts?

PartyPoker Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t60 (10 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2660)
UTG+1 (t2490)
MP1 (t2060)
MP2 (t2490)
MP3 (t1870)
CO+1 (t1765)
Hero (t1910)
Button (t1350)
SB (t1400)
BB (t2005)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO+1 calls t60, Hero calls t60, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks

Flop: (t210) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t60, CO+1 calls t60, Hero raises to t300, BB folds, CO+1 calls t240

Turn: (t870) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO+1 checks, Hero checks

River: (t780) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO+1 bets t1405, Hero ????

ALReturnsLOL · #2 07-25-2006, 02:11 PM

I would not raise this flop. I think I call and re-evaluate on turn. I think I fold river.

jws43yale · #3 07-25-2006, 02:21 PM

I don't mind the play Devin, but the turn sucks. I see you alot at the 55's and I know how tough these spots are. I normally call here thinking, he wouldn't push the flush, and a good portion of the time, I am wrong.

Edit: I am not sure about the reraise as you limped pf. What kind of hand are you trying to represent? I would like the play alot more if you raised pf, which I might consider doing with postiion and one or no limpers.

Limesparks · #4 07-25-2006, 02:31 PM

The only feasible hands I can see Villain playing like this are AJ and a slew of flush hands. If I'm villain I'm probably checking AJ on the end here, hoping to induce a bluff, and maybe throwing out a blocking bet with assorted 2pair and trips hands.

So you're risking 1400 to win 1100. The river's a fold.

The flop is just weird - why 'mix it up' here, against two players who are obviously interested in this hand?

DevinLake · #5 07-25-2006, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So you're risking 1400 to win 1100. The river's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm risking 1405 to win 2185.

[ QUOTE ]
The flop is just weird - why 'mix it up' here, against two players who are obviously interested in this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

How are they obviously interested in the hand. Donk number one min bets, donk number two flat calls a min raise? This does not equal all that much interest. This is pretty standard stuff at the $55s, and they have a lot of weaker hands than my QJs here.

jws43yale · #6 07-25-2006, 02:56 PM

I definitely agree with your logic here, but we both know that most donkeys aren't going to give up an ace in the pot, especially when not raised pf. Just from my standpoint, I would put an average 55'er (not a reg like you) on something they did not want to hit. I know you feel like 300 shows strength, but 5x reraise seems a little too strong. Also, if I fire this flop bet, I fire a turn bet or otherwise I look weak and open myself up to a bluff. If I had lets say top pair, flush redraw, assuming I call a reraise (which I wouldn't), I would feel confident in bluffing river.

KingDan · #7 07-25-2006, 02:56 PM

Assuming you think the open limp is weakness, raise pf.

Position rules.

I think you're chopping river a lot. You are losing to the flush a lot more often than you beat a bluff.

Limesparks · #8 07-25-2006, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you're risking 1400 to win 1100. The river's a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm risking 1405 to win 2185.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if he was betting with something less than a J. Do you see him shoving here without at least a straight? If he's that aggro that's a read you might've included in the OP.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The flop is just weird - why 'mix it up' here, against two players who are obviously interested in this hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

How are they obviously interested in the hand. Donk number one min bets, donk number two flat calls a min raise? This does not equal all that much interest. This is pretty standard stuff at the $55s, and they have a lot of weaker hands than my QJs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they have a weaker Q here, why are you looking to blow them out? It's also a little hard to represent a big Ace here too, since you limped PF. I guess I just don't understand why you picked this spot to get jiggy. With reads, maybe.

DevinLake · #9 07-25-2006, 03:57 PM

Couple thoughts.

1) Bet size. I'm raising t240 into a pot of t390. So, although it is significantly larger than the orginal bet, it is not a overly big re-raise.

2) Reasons to bet: There are three main reasons why I will bet at a pot. One, to extract value. Two, to protect my hand against draws. Three, to get better hands to fold.

So, in this pot I'm not trying to extract value. So, one and three apply. I'm trying to get better hands to fold, and, in the case I'm ahead, protect against draws.

I'm betting this flop hoping to take it down right here. Hopefully I can get a weak A to fold, or even KQ. What's the likely hood of this? Well, I'm not sure cause I don't have any reads. But, a bet on the flop and on the turn using my position would give me a decent chance of getting these better hands to fold.

Also, by betting a large % of the pot, I'm not giving some one great odds to chase.

Once the turn arrives however, I'm now not liking my chances of getting a hand to fold. One of the hands, KQ, just got a lot stronger. Also, a lot of draws just got there. AJ and, less likely, JT just hit a straight and any spade draw got there.

So, I don't see any more reason to put money in this pot. Of course, the river changed all that.

3) Getting better hands to fold: This is related to my first reason for betting, extracting value. With the texture of this flop and strength of my hand, I'm not worried about extracting value from weaker hands here.

4) King Dan: Honestly can't say I ever thought of raising this preflop. But, if I was going to get frisky like this post flop, I guess getting frisky preflop probably has similiar risk/reward.

Thanks for all the input guys...back to be ABC for a while.