Cheating??? or just horrible players?

[stevie555]

Sometimes when I play small stakes SnGs ($10-$30, 10 or 20 people) I get the feeling that i'm being cheated out of my money. Some guy will make a call that even the biggest idiots alive wouldn't make, and, of course, he wins. Here's one of the many examples i've seen:

Last night I was in a $10+$1 20 person tourney (top 5 pay) and it was down to the final six. The blinds were 200/400, and there were two stacks at the table w/ 650 or less (both to my right). The chip leader (in 1st pos) has about 5,000, I (on the button) have 2,500, and the SB and BB (after posting) have 1,800 and 2,520, respectively.

The first 4 players elect to fold, and I, with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , decide to go all in (I was in the middle of the pack chip wise and figured a 600 boost would increase my chances of winning the tournament).

In a situation like this, most players (unless you're the big stack) would be playing very tight, trying to wait out the two small stacks and glide into the money spots. So when the BB called me with lightning speed I figured he probably had AA-QQ, maybe JJ-99, and a very slim chance of AK or AQ. After all, he only had a slight chip advantage over me and a lose here would give him a very high likelyhood of bubbling out.

Instead, a player who had been moderatley tight throughout the tournament turns over the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], a hand so weak that it isnt even a favorite to a random bluff!

When the flop came 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] i was still stunned that he had made the call, but when the turn came 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I already knew what I was going to lose to.

He made the cooler straight, which I couldn't even beat with AA or KK had i not been 'bluffing,' and it left me thinking to myself, "what could have possesed him to make this outrageous call?"

Some people might say it was just a horrible opponent who got lucky on a near-race situation, but had he truely been this terrible he would either have been knocked out already or done something earlier to reveal his stupidity.

I'm not talking about the times when some jackass goes all in early in the tournament in 3rd pos w/ AJo and gets called by the SB with 10 8 suited (which ends up winning), but situations like the one ive mentioned above seem to happen with moderate frequency. I'm not talking about a bad beat or a maniac on a calling rampage, I'm talking about a situation were it is a clear fold to any poker player alive (1 before money w/ 2 short stacks alive and 95 in the hole) but the guy decides to call, and wins it anyway.

"You only remember the losing hands," someone might say, but i'd remember winning a hand like this just as much after the guy turns his cards over.

Anyway, my question is: are there really ways to see other people's whole cards (like people advertise on PP all the time) or decipher the log code for the RNG or greatly benefit from collusion; or are some players just truley this terrible? Possible answers like "he was multitabling and the window popped up when he had KK at the other table" or "His buddy was a short stack and he wanted to get him in the money" are somewhat reasonable, but these situations occur too often for this to be true all the time.

[Velocity]

dude, players suck and make [censored] calls all the time, it isn't to cheat you, it si to try and give you their money.

velocity

[jgunnip]

i think you might be on to something here...

[taipan168]

He's just a donk who made a terrible call. If he could really see your hole cards why would he call here when he was a 40/60 underdog? He would wait until you pushed 85o and was a 2:1 favourite.

Besides, why [censored] with a stack that can knock you out when you're on the bubble and there are 2 shorties with 1.5x BB each? That was a bad push with A6s IMO.

[Velocity]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you might be on to something here...

[/ QUOTE ]

ship it jeff, im getting back on aim. holla

[bawcerelli]

it's hella rigged stevie.

but then again...if he could see hole cards, why would he be in a $30 sit n go? Hello? McFly????

[stevie555]

I pushed with A6 because i was thinking about later in the tournament. If he has AA-QQ: gg, the other 96% i get 600 more and move up to 2nd in chips. But I wasn't playing to finish 4th while i get blinded away in the process by the big stack, and I was just as much of a threat to him as he was to me since if he loses he's all in SB next hand.

[StaticShock]

Stevie,

His pattern mapper was obviously working. You should look into getting one of these. It will help you a tremendous amount.

[taipan168]

With two shorties I would still have throttled back and waited for one of the shorties to bust. You are on the button so the shorties will very shortly post blinds which represent 2/3 of their stack before the blinds reach you, I would want a monster to be pushing here.

Agree with you that it was a totally retarded call though.

[StaticShock]

[ QUOTE ]

Agree with you that it was a totally retarded call though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when your pattern mapper is working.