A few hands against a LAG

Frostbeard · #1 06-16-2006, 07:28 AM

You reload at Stars, and choose a table. You notice that there is one guy who is playing every hand, betting and raising nearly always. You do not see him fold postflop. You see him cap a turn HU against a pre flop raiser with the crap end of a gutshot. You see him cap the river against another opponent with 7 high. You post the big blind. In the first 20 hands...

I don't really like using stats that much when I only have limited hands, but for you statmeisters out there, here are his stats after the session (in white): 75/30/3 

Hand 1:

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 LAG/ calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 LAG/ calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, LAG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Hand 2:
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB LAG/ calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
LAG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, LAG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
LAG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises, LAG 3-bets, Hero caps, LAG calls.

River: (12.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

Hand 3:
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 LAG/ calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 LAG/ 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, LAG bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, LAG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, LAG 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
LAG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Hand 4:
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button LAG/ 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button LAG/ calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, LAG raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, LAG bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, LAG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

Hand 5:
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 LAG/ calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 LAG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, LAG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, LAG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, BB folds.

River: (8.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
LAG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

I am posting these hands because I made a conscious decision during the first hand. Since he is not folding, a raise opens you up to an expensive reraise. You have no idea what he is holding, and I remembered something about c/cing in these situations. I am not exactly sure what the rationale is behind this, besides the basic win more when you are ahead bc he keeps donking, lose less when you are behind, but if he wil keep raising and not stop, then what are your standards for going to war? Are there spots where I should have popped it?

crunchy1 · #2 06-16-2006, 08:10 AM

Hand 1: If I'm going to continue after not improving on the flop - I'm raising to knock out the BB and get HU with the LAG.

Hand 2: I'm putting in a river raise and calling a 3-bet.

Hand 3: I think, most LAGs, are smart enough to know when they're not going to win the hand. I also think that they're still not disciplined enough to fold. I like waiting until the river to raise here (and I probably wouldn't have when the Q hit - but I would've on any card that kept my hand a top-pair or better). The reason I like waiting is that a LAG is more apt to 3-bet bluff the turn than he would be the river. If you raise the river you're probably still going to get the call from a worse hand - but you're likely not going to get bluffed at - and sometimes he might get scared of the river raise and fail to 3-bet his better hands (which are definitely going 3 bets on the turn)

Hand 4: Fine. I also like a check-raise line on the flop. Call-down a flop 3-bet or lead the turn if the lag only calls your flop c/r.

One of the principles of playing against a LAG is isolating him and playing pots HU - you did that fine in this situation - but, for instance, if MP was a loose/passive calling station you might want to c/r to face him with calling 2 cold. In your situation, you managed to use the lag for a raise and face the BB with 2SBs. Whatever works! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Hand 5: Interesting spot that MP puts you in by folding on the river. I understand what it's like to want to call down this guy every time. The only concern that I have here is your read. Only you know whether you're taking this down enough to be profitable.

crablegs33 · #3 06-16-2006, 12:47 PM

hand 1: seems fine... initially i wanted to see a raise somewhere in this hand, but after thinking about it i don't want this maniac raising me at any point w/ only ace high, so i think a simple call down works...

hand 2: if this guy is as big of a maniac as you stated, he donks this river with much more than a Jack here... I give serious consideration to raising and calling a 3-bet here on the river...

hand 3/4/5 seem fine...

Frostbeard · #4 06-16-2006, 06:30 PM

hand 1:
I was thinking about raising the flop in hand 1. This is a spot I usually do, to knock out BB and possibly try for a free card, or CB turn and take a free SD. But, against an super aggressive player, you are probably going to get 3 bet. Meaning, since you knock out BB, you put in 3 bets to win a pot of 11.5, basically 1:3 instead of 1:8. But if you are ahead, you put villain in a tough spot...although he is probably not folding and still going to donk the turn.

So the question in hand 1 is, do you want it to go to three bets, or would you rather maybe allow the button in?

hand 2:
Yeah. I pussied out.

hand 3: why do you wait until the river to raise? We are pretty sure we have the best hand, and you said the LAG was more likely to 3bet bluff the turn, right? But if we wait until the river, we don't collect that bluff bet, and we are stopped from raising by Q's and A's.

hand 4:
This one was tough for me, as when the flop came, I was not super sure if I was ahead in the 4 way capped pot. I wanted to get it HU with LAG, who I was almost certain was behind. However, the pot is so big that most draws could profitably call. My thinking was to lead out, instead of c/r, becuase MP1 has to be scared that LAG will raise, and I may 3bet, so he might fold, and BB might fold facing 2 and the possibility that I woudl raise and LAG might cap. This seemed better than the line of checking and allowing MP1 to donk and use LAG to try to blow BB and me out of the pot, or letting LAG open, BB call one, and probably two more when it got around to him.

Hand 5:
I had seen a few more hands where BB was going nuts with nothing, so I wanted to call him down with almost any pair, or A high. But yeah, I would no overcall there.