Limping hands from EP.

[writser]

This week I'm doing a session review with OrigamiSensei. We've reached consensus about most of our hands, but we can't agree about this one subject: limping with drawing hands in EP. Basically, OrigamiSensei says: "We play low limit, these tables are full of fish, so I can call with good drawing hands in EP.". My opinion is: "Even some of the fish might raise you, and you certainly don't want to get headsup with a PFR. Call only from middle and late position". A few examples we have been fighting about [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]:

55, 89s UTG.
QTs UTG + 1. First player folds.
K9s, 9Js UTG + 2. First two players fold.
KJo UTG + 2. First player calls, next player folds.

OrigamiSensei played all of these hands on his .10/.20 tables. On my 1/2 tables I would fold all of them, possibly with the exception of the last hand. My style is very tight (13.5%), OrigamiSensei plays about 18%. We already agreed that he could limp more hands, since his tables are probably more fishy.

What would you do with these hands on .10/.20? And on 1/2? What are your calling ranges in early position? Any comments would be appreciated.

ps: OrigamiSensei: I also really appreciate the time you take to look at my hands. Your comments are valuable!

[bozlax]

Without a specific read on Villans to act behind me or the table in question, I'm playing all these hands for one preflop, all the way up to 2/4. Yes, even fish sometimes raise, and if they do you don't love it, but other fish will still call, and your hand is no harder to get away from when it doesn't hit hard.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
55, 89s UTG.

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I'd limp 55 at many tables. I'd rarely limp 89s (it needs to be very loose-passive).

[ QUOTE ]
QTs UTG + 1. First player folds.

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I like a call.

[ QUOTE ]
K9s, 9Js UTG + 2. First two players fold.

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K9s is a limp for me at most tables, but I don't mind mucking it if the table is tight. J9s is a limper at the fishier tables.

[ QUOTE ]
KJo UTG + 2. First player calls, next player folds.

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I usually limp along. Raising is only good if the limper is loose and the rest of the table is pretty tight. Raising here has the primary purpose of isolating the limper (since value diminishes with every coldcaller behind me).

[ QUOTE ]
My style is very tight (13.5%)

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Your style is too tight. You should be aiming for at least 16 VPIP. You probably can open-raise a lot more than what you're currently doing.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
55, 89s UTG.
QTs UTG + 1. First player folds.
K9s, 9Js UTG + 2. First two players fold.
KJo UTG + 2. First player calls, next player folds.

[/ QUOTE ]

22 utg - limp
87s utg - fold
98s utg - limp if table isn't overaggro

QTs utg+1 - limp

K9s, J9s UTG+2 first in - fold (i'd limp J9s after one other)

KJo - fold pre MP2, consider open-raise in MP2, fold after limpers in MP2, consider raising limpers in MP3 or later.

added: i think i played 18/9 when i last played 10max.. and was much looser in LP than EP.

[writser]

You call all pocket pairs UTG? On what limits? I know I should probably loosen up, but this sounds _very_ loose to me.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
You call all pocket pairs UTG? On what limits? I know I should probably loosen up, but this sounds _very_ loose to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd do it on any micro 10-max table (or find a new table if I thought I couldn't unless i picked a table w/ a maniac).

archive topic

[kerowo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You call all pocket pairs UTG? On what limits? I know I should probably loosen up, but this sounds _very_ loose to me.

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i'd do it on any micro 10-max table (or find a new table if I thought I couldn't unless i picked a table w/ a maniac).

archive topic

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How much of that archive link is predicated on what on-line poker was like 3 years ago? Perhaps the way to frame this conversation is what vpip table we are talking about. It's much easier to play EP when you know you'll usually get 2 plus the blinds in a hand, not so much when you're lucky to get 3 into a hand at all.

Not much good for the newbs to say it depends on the table, how would you rate a default Party micro table these days?

[writser]

At Party 1/2, I'd say the average table has a VPIP of about 20%.

[johnnytt]

I am clearing a bonus at pokerroom right now and at 1/2 the average VPIP is about 20-25%. How do you play these hands at a table like this?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
22 utg - limp

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I'm not sure if it's an auto-limp. It an often-limp, but there are tables that are tight enough where it's not worth limping unless you pwn postflop. (This also means that the table is tight enough to be doing some loose raising up front and getting away with it.)