Got in a weird spot

thank you Sir · #1 10-13-2006, 09:21 PM

No real reads on anybody at the table, have only been here for a couple of orbits.

.25/.50

Hero has K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Preflop:

UTG (seems fishy) limps, i raise, folded to SB who calls, BB calls, UTG call

Flop: 8SB
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB donks, UTG calls, i call (was planning on raising until UTG called, should I still raise?) SB calls

Turn: 6BB
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB donks, BB calls, UTG raises, I call, SB calls, BB folds

River: 13 BB
2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me, and I obviously bet, SB folds, UTG calls

Not really too sure what should I be doing on the turn either, when I am confused I usually call

yikes <font color="green"> </font>

RemyXO · #2 10-13-2006, 09:27 PM

Raise the flop. What are you exactly afraid of on the turn? Set of eights? 3-bet your two-pair.

MrWookie · #3 10-13-2006, 09:34 PM

Why in the hell would we raise the flop?

thank you Sir · #4 10-13-2006, 09:40 PM

What kind of hand do you think SB is leading with on the turn? I didn't raise because I didn't want to see it come back to me capped and I am basically seeing a showdown with this hand.

RemyXO · #5 10-13-2006, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why in the hell would we raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Two options here - either one of them has an ace, or they don't. If it comes back as 3-bet, throw the KJ away.
If they call your raise and donk the turn, it's heck of a lot more convincing that they have your jacks beat as well.

I think calling is the worst option - you still have no clue where you stand and basically hoping to hit to your 5 outs on the turn. Answer this - if the turn is T and not J - is it an easy fold? If yes, then it's a mistake to call the flop bet.

Please, take the above apart for me!

MrWookie · #6 10-13-2006, 10:01 PM

If it comes back to you 3bet, you have odds to draw to 5 outs.

RemyXO · #7 10-13-2006, 10:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What kind of hand do you think SB is leading with on the turn? I didn't raise because I didn't want to see it come back to me capped and I am basically seeing a showdown with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's ask the question differently - what hands are beating you right now?

AA, JJ, KK, AK - these hands would have three-bet preflop, unless you are positive that SB is capable of slowplaying them.

88, AJ, QT are more likely bad holdings for you, but you'll definitely see three-bet turn.

So, there are three hands that beat you. I will value bet all day long in this situation.

Now, what kinds of hands SB is leading out with? I won't be too surprised if he turns over Kx.

RemyXO · #8 10-13-2006, 10:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it comes back to you 3bet, you have odds to draw to 5 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate it when you are right [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
I didn't look at the pot odds if it becomes three bets.
OK, you can call ... 10:1 flop odds are fine ... do you still muck if the turn misses? Cause you still don't know whether jacks are good or not.

MrWookie · #9 10-13-2006, 10:41 PM

Why are you so concerned about precisely whether or not your J's are good? Concern yourself instead with ranges.

CrMenace · #10 10-13-2006, 10:52 PM

*grunch*

You are likely behind on the flop, but getting 10:1 pot odds and 4 non-flush outs to get 2 pair or better. Assuming SB is unlikely to c/r, your call is good.

Turn- you hit one of your four outs but now you have a new donker and raiser. There is a good chance that you are ahead, but I'm not in love with it so much that I reraise. There is some possibility one of the villains has aces up or QT. You may hit your boat, though.

Flop - played correctly, IMO.

Basically, I think you played the hand correctly.