Good books for 7 Card Stud?

[KSOT]

I debated posting this in the books forum, but I think I'd get better answers here. I own Stud poker for advanced players, but like HEFAP, I do not think it's meant for the lower limits. Are there any books out there that apply well to low limits, but are not necessarily introductory?

Thank you.

[BlueSmurf]

Hello KSOT

I believe a search in the books forum or this one should do the trick. It comes up now and again.

Basically, you have Kammen, West, Adams & Reese's chapter in SS1. I like the last two, but the first two not so much. Opinions differ as to how useful 7CSFAP is for low limit play. I find it not so useful (but very inspirational and providing a thought level to aim for) but I know at least Andy disagrees - viz. usefulness that is.

Cheers,

Smurf

PS: [ QUOTE ]
"Are there any books out there that apply well to low limits, but are not necessarily introductory?"

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be a problem!

[BlueSmurf]

There you go. There's one thread at least:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...page=&vc=1

[Andy B]

The problem with the books that are out there that are geared towards the lower limits is that they all stink. The most important difference between low-limit games and mid-limit games is that the low-limit games are usually more tightly structured. Some low-limit games actually have a structure that is more like a mid-limit game than a low-limit game. Party's $3/6 game with a $.50 ante is an example. Whatever game you play, you're going to have to adjust some for the size of the ante. I think it's easy to overcompensate. I've seen people advocating very loose play in Party's $.50/1.00 game which has a hideous $.25 ante. I don't think you should play that many extra hands in this game, because the bottom line is that you're going to have to show down the best hand in order to win.

My advice is to read 7CS4AP and try to make reasonable adjustments for the ante structure of your game. If you're playing low-limit, or something like Foxwoods' $20/40 game, pay particular attention to the section on loose games.

[The Worm]

[ QUOTE ]

My advice is to read 7CS4AP and try to make reasonable adjustments for the ante structure of your game. If you're playing low-limit, or something like Foxwoods' $20/40 game, pay particular attention to the section on loose games.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with Andy, read 7CSFAP and adjust your game to ante structure and level of table play. A lot of advanced techniques wont work in lower limit games, but the sections on starting hands, how to play 3 flushes, trips etc is very helpful.

[ECDub]

Winning Seven Card Stud By Adams is a really good book starting out. I just read it again last week. It is so solid for the basics for the lower limits, it is a shame not to read it when your starting out.

If you use 7CSFAP methods at lower limits, you will want to burn the book by the end of your session. The book was not written with the idea that you will have 5 or 6 people seeing 4th street, or that a reraise will not lose anyone. Heck, I see people reraise the guy that reraised just because he felt like it. You get a lot of gamblers that like to chase cards down. Trying to use scare cards or reraising to buy a free card will not work as often at lower limits. As the authors of 7CSFAP note, the lower limit players are not sophisticated enough to realize what you're doing. They might not even know what they, themselves, are doing. Adams' book will help you build a solid foundation to battle the characters you will see at a low limit table.

Don't get me wrong, I love 7CSFAP. It has solid information on 3rd street decisions and I think that would be good to read. It also has a section on playing loose games, which has some useful ideas on when it is not always optimal to raise with the best hand when your opponents will not fold. You have to be really careful when your playing several opponents who will very likely not fold before seeing the 7th card. You will see a lot of folks like that at the lower limits. So there are things in there that are useful to a new player, but I don't think a new player will appreciate the information before they have read some introductory material and played a number of hands.

[Fierce Lion7]

I agree with Andy B. about reading the loose section in 7CSFAP.

I would like to point something out. Advanced plays are obviuosly no good for low limit games. However, you should think about WHY strong players fold to certain plays. I am not talking about semi-bluffs or bluffs but certain raises and betting styles such as check-raising and waiting until fifth street where bets will knock people out.

So the Donks stay in. That pisses folks off because they get sucked out on a lot. Yet why do the good players fold? They do it because the odds are not good and in the long run they will lose money even if they suck out on someone in this pot.

So when a Donk sucks out on you by making a bad call, he is actually losing money. I know it is difficult to think of this abstract idea when some guy who played like a moron is raking in the pot but that is how it is.

Donks play like that because they remember all of that money they got from that one pot. They don't remember all of the chased pots that cost them a fortune. They think in terms of getting lucky this one time.

Did that make any fargin' sense?

To KSOT. If you have read and understand 7CSFAP including the loose section and can't beat low level games, you need to analyze your play more.

[PJS]

I know Hellmuth's book gets flamed for his Hold'em advice, but was wondering what you guy's think of his Stud advice. I read a few posts before that said after you get beyond the Hold'em advice, the book improves.

Just curious.

PJS

[AlanBostick]

Ten years ago I started playing winning $2-$4 stud with $0.25 ante after reading the stud chapter in Edwin Silberstang's Winning Poker for the Serious Player -- an admittedly inferior book (Silberstang doesn't even mention the importance of the other players' cards that are out), then bought and read the first edition of Sklansky Malmuth & Zee. My game immediately tanked. The strategy for a tight mid-limit game in Vegas twenty years ago simply isn't appropriate for loose low-limit play.

Roy West's book rescued my game. Whatever its flaws (and they are many), it taught me the importance of playing live cards and tracking the cards that are out. West teaches a method for remembering cards that is invaluable, well worth the book's price for it alone.

Whatever Sklansky says about his SS1 chapter on high-low regular stud, in my own opinion the Chip Reese chapter on high stud in SS1 contains the most pure gold in the shortest space of anything I've ever read about poker.

I haven't kept up with high-only stud books after that, because I don't play that game much any more. It's odd, because stud/8 has become my strongest game.

[Elmo Jones]

Chapter 4 Theory of Poker is a good discussion on adjusting to ante structure.

I have the Adams book it is OK. It teaches you how not to get killed. Not how to beat the game. In chapter five he discusses how you use what experience eventually teaches you to ignore the basic strategy that he laid out earlier. Cause you can't beat low limits playing that tight. But you won't go broke either. After that much experience however you won't need the book anymore ha ha ha!