Badugi snow

[*TT*]

Interesting situation last night. Guy to my right sees six hearts in two draws, decides to snow his opponent out of position, HU when shew drew only one the prior hand.

unfortunately she called, was pat in position and won the hand.

Although he saw 6 blocking cards, there are still 7 live hearts. How many blocking cards should be known before it becomes strategically correct to always snow in this situation - assuming your opponent wont call with anything short of a Badugi? What about if the hero has the button? What if the hero is facing two opponents? Three opponents?

[palman]

Well if your opponnent will never call without a badugi, I would imagine in all but the smallest heads up pots that a snow would always be +EV.

In multiway pots OOP, generally, if you are going to snow, ideally you'd want the person who is driving the action and likely has the strongest 3 card hand directly after you, and have a person with a weaker hand last to act. I usually never snow when the person with the strong 3 card closes the action, as you'll get looked up too often.

On the topic of snowing, I was wondering if anyone had ever tried this one. I'd been playing for months before doing it, so it seemed unusual to me.

Villian is mimi tran, who certainly knows what she's doing but can be too loose pf in the 40 game in the draw games.

I was in the bb and defended with something weak, Mimi raised in EP and there was a caller on the button. I either went 2-1 or was drawing 1-1 on the first 2 draws. Mimi led out after the first draw and we all called and drew 1. On the second draw mimi bet again, the other player called, I c/r'd with a snow, mimi 3 bet, the other folded and I felt as if she could be trying to get me to break/have a Q or K and would ditch it....but at the same time if I 4 bet, I figured she'd look me up on the end often enough due to pot odds and the chance I could snow. I have a very tricky image. So I called and stood pat OOP, and she drew one. I bet the end and she mucked.

This was certainly my favorite snow I've done in the game, and yes I tried it again the next day and my opponnent stood pat behind me. Those are the only 2 times I've done it.

[2461Badugi]

The bluff reverse freeze is pretty awesome. I've never played Badugi against anyone good enough to try it on, but I've pulled it off in 2-7 a dozen times or so.

[palman]

Never thought to really do it in duece, although I've obviously patted bad 9's in times like this when I thought my opponnent had 87 or a better 9 and I thought they'd break.

I didn't know such a bluff had a name, and now that I know it's called a bluff reverse freeze I'm gona do it alot more simply to say I did a bluff reverse freeze because that's clearly the coolest poker term out there. And I'm not being sarcastic.

You said you haven't found an opponnent good enough to do it yet, when all you really need is just someone who is aggressive enough that they fairly often try to get you to break when they have A23, which should be a common enough trait to find.

[chopchoi]

I only played badugi once, so sorry if this is a stupid question, but how is having seen a bunch of hearts an advantage when you have no idea which suit your opponent needs?

[MarkGritter]

The more hearts you have, the more likely it is that your opponent needs one.

Number of hearts in your hand ==> probability that your opponent has no hearts in his hand

0 (+4 non-hearts): 27%
1 (+3 non-hearts): 30%
2 (+2 non-hearts): 34%
3 (+1 non-hearts): 38%
4 (+0 non-hearts): 42%

Or suppose you draw three to your single heart--- then you see seven cards total,

5 (+2 non-hearts): 44%
6 (+1 non-heart): 50%
7 hearts seen: 55% chance that he doesn't have a heart

Now, that doesn't quite answer the question because these numbers are for arbitrary four-card hand--- the conditional probabilities given that he has cards of two or three different suits may look a bit different.

An opponent will probably not keep a high heart anyway, so the chance that he has a low heart is even less.

In my only live badugi session, I was quite happy to get 8542 clubs and snow with it four-handed.

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
The more hearts you have, the more likely it is that your opponent needs one.

Number of hearts in your hand ==> probability that your opponent has no hearts in his hand

0 (+4 non-hearts): 27%
1 (+3 non-hearts): 30%
2 (+2 non-hearts): 34%
3 (+1 non-hearts): 38%
4 (+0 non-hearts): 42%

Or suppose you draw three to your single heart--- then you see seven cards total,

5 (+2 non-hearts): 44%
6 (+1 non-heart): 50%
7 hearts seen: 55% chance that he doesn't have a heart

Now, that doesn't quite answer the question because these numbers are for arbitrary four-card hand--- the conditional probabilities given that he has cards of two or three different suits may look a bit different.

An opponent will probably not keep a high heart anyway, so the chance that he has a low heart is even less.

In my only live badugi session, I was quite happy to get 8542 clubs and snow with it four-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like part of the answer of when to snow then depends on the ranks of the suited cards as well, the lower the better.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The more hearts you have, the more likely it is that your opponent needs one.

Number of hearts in your hand ==> probability that your opponent has no hearts in his hand

0 (+4 non-hearts): 27%
1 (+3 non-hearts): 30%
2 (+2 non-hearts): 34%
3 (+1 non-hearts): 38%
4 (+0 non-hearts): 42%

Or suppose you draw three to your single heart--- then you see seven cards total,

5 (+2 non-hearts): 44%
6 (+1 non-heart): 50%
7 hearts seen: 55% chance that he doesn't have a heart

Now, that doesn't quite answer the question because these numbers are for arbitrary four-card hand--- the conditional probabilities given that he has cards of two or three different suits may look a bit different.

An opponent will probably not keep a high heart anyway, so the chance that he has a low heart is even less.

In my only live badugi session, I was quite happy to get 8542 clubs and snow with it four-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like part of the answer of when to snow then depends on the ranks of the suited cards as well, the lower the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur that the lower cards are better, but vs an opponent who is likely to call on the river with a Q high clean Badugi I don't think the "size" of the suit will matter as much as we would like it to. Vs an opponent who is apt to call and draw 3 from the big blind of course I think holding 4 low cards to the suit is fantastic.

[SGspecial]

[ QUOTE ]
I concur that the lower cards are better, but vs an opponent who is likely to call on the river with a Q high clean Badugi I don't think the "size" of the suit will matter as much as we would like it to. Vs an opponent who is apt to call and draw 3 from the big blind of course I think holding 4 low cards to the suit is fantastic.

[/ QUOTE ]
So there are loose donks in Badugi too? I may have to learn this game [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]