Floor Error in My Favor???? collect 4k...

[Nomar]

After read Shaniac's Blog, http://shaniaconline.blogspot.com/, I started thinking about the best (for me) floor decision during the WSOP.

3 handed 200-400 Badagi @ the Rio
Im in the SB, the BB is the alleged spot in the game, and the button is a player I have played with all series long.

The button Raises, I 3 bet in sb with 43A (no diamond), they both call and both draw 2.

I catch a blank and bet they both call.

I draw 1, they both draw 2 again, I catch a blank and bet, the BB raises the button folds I call.

I throw 1 card out the BB stands pat, now the dealer goes to deal me the flimsy RIO card and hits his wrist or something and the 5 of diamonds flutters through the air and lands face up in front of me, as if I was playing stud!!!

Now this card is pretty much gin in badagi, but I have NO IDEA what the rule is, but know I want this freaken card.

Anyway the floor is called, the female floors person from the high section comes over (not sure of her name but I owe her a christmas card) and says we dont have official badagi rulings, so we use 2-7 rules, and if its a "wheel card" you are forced to keep it. WHOOAA !!!

I show him my hand (virtual nutz) and dont bet the river due to the confusion.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway the floor is called, the female floors person from the high section comes over (not sure of her name but I owe her a christmas card) and says we dont have official badagi rulings, so we use 2-7 rules, and if its a "wheel card" you are forced to keep it. WHOOAA !!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good for you, but thats right up there with the worst floor decision ever. The card is obviously dead.

It would have been funny if you bet after the 3rd draw just for giggles.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[MarkGritter]

Sounds like a bad ruling to me. Robert's rules has the "must take a wheel card" provision only for cards exposed predraw. (And in Badugi a 5 isn't a wheel card anyway!)

[bigpooch]

Merry Xmas! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeathDonkey]

Yep, this is awful, and she's misunderstanding the 2-7 rule. But congrats.

-DeathDonkey

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a bad ruling to me. Robert's rules has the "must take a wheel card" provision only for cards exposed predraw. (And in Badugi a 5 isn't a wheel card anyway!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just re-read that rule because it was one that I totally forgot about. Whats interesting is that the rule is different for NL or PL games -

2. A player is not entitled to know that an opponent does not hold the best possible hand, so these rules for exposed cards before the draw apply:

(a) In ace-to-five lowball, a player must take an exposed card of A, 2, 3, 4, or 5, and any other card must be replaced.

(b) In deuce-to-seven lowball, the player must take an exposed card of 2, 3, 4, 5, or 7, and any other card including a 6 must be replaced.

Is it possible that Bob made an error when describing the exposed cards as being pre-draw? Did he mean during the draw? The literal meaning doesn't pertain to the actual draw (and in triple draw and Badugi there are three draws so i makes it more confusing).

Are there any linguists here that can help decipher?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[DOMIT]

[ QUOTE ]
...an opponent does not hold the best possible hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you want people to know you hold a King, because you were forced to take it?

So, if it's a "good" (wheel) card, you do take it, but if it's a "bad" card, opponent's would have information to the weakness of your hand.

I think if the error was done pre-draw, the card would be replaced, just like hold'em. But I've never played this live. How say you? I can't see them dealing pre and flipping up a deuce and saying that you have to take it pre-draw..?

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a bad ruling to me. Robert's rules has the "must take a wheel card" provision only for cards exposed predraw. (And in Badugi a 5 isn't a wheel card anyway!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I just re-read that rule because it was one that I totally forgot about. Whats interesting is that the rule is different for NL or PL games -

2. A player is not entitled to know that an opponent does not hold the best possible hand, so these rules for exposed cards before the draw apply:

(a) In ace-to-five lowball, a player must take an exposed card of A, 2, 3, 4, or 5, and any other card must be replaced.

(b) In deuce-to-seven lowball, the player must take an exposed card of 2, 3, 4, 5, or 7, and any other card including a 6 must be replaced.

Is it possible that Bob made an error when describing the exposed cards as being pre-draw? Did he mean during the draw? The literal meaning doesn't pertain to the actual draw (and in triple draw and Badugi there are three draws so i makes it more confusing).

Are there any linguists here that can help decipher?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I sent an email to Bob Ciafone to get his input since he is the guy who write the rule book most of us follow. Here is his response:

"The person making the ruling has a problem understanding English. The two rules you give are for BEFORE THE DRAW, as plainly stated..
Here is the lowball rule for a card exposed on the draw (which should apply for any of the three draws in triple-draw).
9. On the draw, an exposed card cannot be taken. The draw is completed to each player in order, and then the exposed card is replaced."

Thanks a lot Bob! I must admit I only found the pre-draw rule, so I can see how the floor may have been confused but its still a horrible ruling none the less because its just not logical.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]