Tournament story

[docholiday420]

Playing at the Foxwoods stud tournament. I make it to the final four. Level is 300 ante, 600 bring in, 2000, 4000. Got about 12,000 in chips. About 90000 total, chip leader maybe 30K. So I get deal A J 3 all clubs, and of course the 3 is up so I'm the bring-in. I'm raised to 2000 and I call, with the soul intention of seeing one card, hoping for the A or club. Well I get the aces of spades. The raiser by the way had a 4 up.

4th comes I have a pair of A's, I check raise.

5th comes he makes a second pair and I get a fourth club. I got now about 4000 left he bets I raise back what I got left.

He flips over Q up.

Neither improve and I lose.

Was this a bad play?

[docholiday420]

BTW I was not going against the chip leader but another player who had maybe 18000 in chips, I was smalllest stack.

[PoorLawyer]

i cant really see what else you can do here. I suppose if there is another short stack and a big difference b/w 4th place and 3rd place money, you can fold and just hope to he busts first.

[docholiday420]

Well there was a big difference in money, but I was the short stack. Trust me in hindsight I wish I did, but it was not like there was a stack of 2000 chips. Everyone was pretty even maybe 12K, 18K, 25K, 35K making the 90K.

[docholiday420]

By the way late in a stud tourney like 5 or less players high level is it wiser to bluff and pull a lot of ante steals, or is it not worth it since there's only four to five antes. Are you then better just really waiting for a hand you can DIE with?

[Andy B]

You might consider bringing it in full or raising on the backside. At no point should you fold, and I think you want to get your money in there. The difference between fourth and third may have been significant, but the difference between fourth and first is a lot more significant, and you're not going to win if you're not willing to gamble some.

[chucky]

Depends. Do you opponents know how to fold? I would steal from positions other than directly left of bring-in. There are two ways to play final table of stud tourney. Be an aggressor and try to steal and bully so that you take control of table or play very tight and look to punish stealers on 5th street and later. My style depends totally on the way the rest of the table is playing. Chapter 29 of MOP has some ideas on nash equilibria problems like this.

[docholiday420]

Thanks Andy you are right. The difference between third and first is a lot more significant than fourth and third. I do have to play to win it all. When I used to play SNG I tried to play just to get into the money and then gamble, thinking that was the safe play when it got down to four. But then the shortest stack hits miracle draws so the waiting game doesn't pay out and I'd become low stack. Or if I did get into the final three that would be where I placed--third, because I hadn't amassed anything since. When I play for the win I find that i do win the whole thing more often. This was a hand I should have gotten my money in, even on sixth the odds were like 50%. What if I won, would the other guy had made a mistake for him going in with queens. The cards fall when and where, I was just more upset if this was a right play late in the tournament, my first time at a final table, but had I catch a second pair I would have had been probably 2nd in chips, and this guy would almost be out. thanks.

[Andy B]

You should usually play pretty tight on the bubble in a sit-n-go. The difference between fourth and third in a sit-n-go is 20% of the prize pool. The difference between third and first is only 30% of the prize pool. This is much different from being on the bubble in a MTT. If you sneak into the money in a MTT, you typically only double or triple your money, sometimes not even that. If you finish in the top three, you win many, many times that. It is worth risking that sixteenth place (or whatever) money if it will give you a significantly better chance of winning it all. Your risk-to-reward ratio isn't nearly as good in a sit-n-go because you can't win that much more. Strategic considerations are very different in a sit-n-go than in a multi-table event.

You're talking about taking your whole bankroll and buying into a big tournament. If you decide to go ahead with this and you find yourself close to the bubble, I wouldn't blame you one bit if you sat on your hands for a bit so that you could sneak into the money. If that's going to be your approach, however, that's probably an indication that you shouldn't play.