Help me with my isolation raises.

feroder_zb · #1 08-07-2006, 01:54 PM

I've been trying to work on adding isolation raises to my arsenal and these seemed like good opportunities. MP3 is the same ultra loose and aggressive player in both cases - he limps probably any two suited cards, Ax and probably Kx too. He doesn't raise much PF, but will bet aggressively w/ any pair on the flop and call to show down if raised. He will often fold in a multiway pot (presumably if the flop didn't hit him) but HU will call with UI cards over the board or otherwise. Basically he's a gold mine. The rest of the table is tight and if villain folds, it will often fold to the BB.

Given the above, how are these as isolation raises?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises.

Buckmulligan · #2 08-07-2006, 01:57 PM

I don't like preflop in hand one unless he's really weak postflop.

I don't like hand two either. Verus ulta loose aggressive players you're going to only want to get testy here with hands we can show down ui. I don't like our high card value with qj well enough.

feroder_zb · #3 08-07-2006, 02:01 PM

So you're saying I should pick my iso-raise hands based on what I think I can SD and win UI? When I made these plays I was thinking that if I hit any top or mid pair (A, Q or J) I was probably winning a bet on every street. And since I was in position I would essentially get 4 cards for free to try to hit the board.

Buckmulligan · #4 08-07-2006, 02:07 PM

I'm just saying that versus LAGs - especially ultra lags - you really only want to be isolating with strong hands. These are both decent raises versus your 25/4/1 guy, but I don't like it versus a LAG.

In the first hand especially. You are out of position so your chances of getting a free river just dwindle.

TarHeel100 · #5 08-07-2006, 02:25 PM

First of all, nice reads. That's good note-taking.

I will say this---I'm by no means a master of the isolation play, but I prefer to use it against loose and passive players, not aggressive players. I would prefer not to get into a battle over a small pot if possible. Also, a passive player is going to be more predictable after the flop, so that also makes him a much more +EV opponent on this play in my opinion.

Therefore, the question to me on this post isn't necessarily which hands you are using to raise, but instead the type of player you are using this play against.

If the villain were loose and passive, I could see using both of these hands to raise against him. Maybe my game just isn't evolved enough yet, but that's my take until somebody learns me better.

DrModern · #6 08-07-2006, 02:37 PM

Yeah, I agree with Buck. Though I think that clearly A5o has more showdown value than QJ, I'd be cautious isolating a LAG with either hand. Given a more loose-passive opponent, I like either of these plays.

Also, in the first hand, isolating OOP against a LAG might not be the wisest thing. I'd probably just fold that one, honestly.

Aaron W. · #7 08-07-2006, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
5 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd limp and look to extract postflop.

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises.

[/ QUOTE ]

A raise is okay, but I'd limp and look to extract postflop again.

Think about villain's tendencies before you decide how to isolate. If he's weak, punish early because you're not going to able to punish later. If he's aggressive, punish him *AFTER* you've made a hand because you don't want to go far with weak hands.

Bodizapha · #8 08-07-2006, 04:34 PM

Well, since you seem to have some very good reads I like these iso raises.

KingOtter · #9 08-07-2006, 05:00 PM

I think you can find better hands to isolate with than those. Especially QJo, since you say he'd limp (probably with Ax+ and Kx+

His limping range that you give us is about 50% of hands.

Ax where x>5 = 15% of hands. So for your A5o to be ahead he has to be in the lower 35% of his hands = 35/50 chance = 65% chance. Not bad I guess. Although you did say 'probably any suited' and 'probably any Kx, too', so if his range is actually smaller than that this gets worse.

All Ax, Kx and pp's = 33% of hands. For your QJ to be ahead pre=flop, his hand has to be in the lower 17% of his range, about 1/3rd of the time (any suited, any A, any K is about 50% of hands).

I might isolate that guy with A9o and higher, and K9o and higher. I'd want my kicker to have a good chance of being higher than his kicker. I don't see that happening with A5o. And QJ you start out behind to anything but the suited cards, which he won't call down unless he pairs. So you have to pair, too.

feroder_zb · #10 08-07-2006, 05:01 PM

Thanks guys. I think I have a better understanding of what I'm looking for in iso-raises. On that note, I'd like to do a little (or a lot) more reading/study on the subject. Are there any posts or articles you could link me to? I checked out the microlimit library but nothing really jumped out at me - maybe I just missed it. Thanks.