No Limit Cash Game: Can the Dealer Count the Pot?

TrvChBoy · #1 10-06-2007, 02:20 AM

In my no-limit home game (cash game, not tournament), verbal declarations are binding. A player recently said "I bet the pot", then placed a slightly smaller than pot-sized bet in front of him. This raised a couple of questions, one of which was:

Can a player get a count of the pot from the dealer in a No-Limit cash game?

Does anyone know if there is a generally accepted approach for dealer pot counts in Vegas card rooms for cash games?

Phantomshark · #2 10-06-2007, 04:28 AM

Pot counts are not allowed in non pot-limit games, so 'I bet the pot' can't be legally binding unless you make a special rule. I'd rule that the 'I bet' part is binding, and the amount he put out is his bet.

Dealers in Vegas won't count the pot, though most of them will arrange the chips to give you a better chance to count them.

TheBad · #3 10-06-2007, 06:35 AM

Is this different in limit ? Our dealer used to announce the pot size after each street in the 5/10 limit game. Very usefull !

TrvChBoy · #4 10-06-2007, 11:23 AM

I thought I saw the dealer count the pot one time in High Stakes Poker (the GSN show cash game). That's why I suspect some casinos allow it in NL cash games. I know it is a TDA rule not to count NL pot in a tournament.

Shaqizzle · #5 10-06-2007, 11:28 AM

I remember them having an argument about this about Daniel wanting a count on the pot, but I hear that's not allowed in NL, dealers can spread the pot for you though.

PokerKhan · #6 10-06-2007, 01:02 PM

The norm is that counting the pot is only allowed in pot limit games. For other games, you are supposed to keep track or estimate by looking at the chips in the pot. You can ask the dealer to spread the pot so you can see it easier. Also, the dealer is not supposed to stack the chips in the pot (except in pot limit games).

Of course, every venue has their own house rules and you will find exceptions.

Ray Zee · #7 10-06-2007, 09:26 PM

saying bet the pot is like saying i bet. no amount is mentioned. its the amount you say specifically or the amount you push in.
some casinos may allow it but it isnt the way the game is played.
by saying it you stand to have to put it in and in some places you may only get to bet the minimum or something else, who knows. your opponent may get to decide what you bet by calling the floor if he doesnt like what you did.

GeeBeeQED · #8 10-09-2007, 08:29 AM

I agree it's always clearer to state the amount and I do such 99% of the time. Such remarks from such an known experianced player certainly makes me question my understanding of this situation. I will still state that I think it's a nebulus and soft floor that does not enforce non-numeric but specific bets. Certainly they are not looking to me for how to run thier card rooms, that I accept.

PantsOnFire · #9 10-09-2007, 10:21 AM

The only time I have ever seen a dealer count out a pot in a NL game is if the pot is something on the order of 8-10 chips and spreading them out and counting them is a piece of cake. I have definitely seen a dealer refuse an exact count but make sure all the big chips were visible.

However, I don't think I've seen a player say "I bet the pot" and then have any amount he put out corrected by the dealer. My inclination is that "the pot" part is irrelevent while the amount of chips shoved forward is the binding part.

Now that I think of, this opens up an angle. Player 1 says "I bet the pot", Player 2 instacalls before Player 1 has laid out any chips. Can Player 1 now nake a min bet if he doesn't like the call? To me, I would say yes, since this situation is very similar to a player saying "raise" and getting instacalled before he states an amount or cuts any chips. If he doesn't like his hand anymore, he can just min-raise.

Gonso · #10 10-10-2007, 01:14 AM

I'll spread the chips but don't give exact pot counts in NLHE (this isn't done in our house).

I've only ever had one person call "pot" in a NLHE cash game, and I stopped the action immediately to tell the player he needs to announce the raise amount.

Some players don't even know what a pot size raise actually is, and it's really not right -at least in a NLHE game- for them to have to know. It's certainly not the dealer's obligation to teach them or to have to sort that all out, so these guys have to use normal conventions for announcing bet or raise amounts.