AK. what would you do?

rogue8 · #1 03-01-2007, 01:56 PM

30/60 im +1 from the hijack and raise with AKo. SB 3bets right away(loose player but rarely 3bets, expecially in early position) early limper (tag) calls. i call.
flop 2A2 rainbow. SB bets, limper makes it 2. its obvious limper(i know him) has a weaker Ace but prob not Axs. hes tighter. this is where i shoulda 3bet.see what SB does. but i think that would be obvious i have AK. so i just call waiting for the turn. SB makes it 3!. call, call. turn is ugly Q. SB bets out right away. limper calls.. now this is tougher. im not worried about limper at all hes far behind. but SB is being uncharacteristly aggressive. im not beating anything but AJ. would he 3bet out of the SB with AJ? never seen him be aggressive in early like this so im thinking not. AQ now has me killed. AK is chopping. i call keeping limper in.(this turn play is questionable i called flop planning to raise here)
river bricks SB leads out again limper calls. i stop and think about value raising here. but again i raise, SB reraises maybe AQ. AK chops with me, limper gets out. im either raising to chop or lose a bet in my mind so i just call. thoughts?

emerson · #2 03-01-2007, 02:25 PM

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flop 2A2 rainbow. SB bets, limper makes it 2. its obvious limper(i know him) has a weaker Ace but prob not Axs. hes tighter.

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I'm curious why you say probably not Axs. You put him on an ace, and say that he is a TAG who limped in from early position. What kind of ace does a TAG limp in with from early position other than Ax suited? If he is tight he will probably not play AJ or AT offsuit, and would probably raise with AQ.

rogue8 · #3 03-01-2007, 02:33 PM

i should not have listed him as TAG. preflop hes looser. i also meant not low ace suited. AJ AT A9s A8s
he def has an A here.

emerson · #4 03-01-2007, 03:14 PM

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i should not have listed him as TAG. preflop hes looser. i also meant not low ace suited. AJ AT A9s A8s
he def has an A here.

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As you suggested you might have done, I would have made it 3 bets on the flop. This gets you more information if you are then raised and are bet into on the turn. Okay, so you call and SB makes it 3, you both call. When the Q falls on the turn, SB bets, and next guy calls, I think you're in trouble. You don't call the turn unless you plan to call the river unimproved. So you have to make your river decision on the turn. There is no way I raise that river after the guy in the middle calls. Perhaps if you were second to act and had a chance of knocking out a better hand then a raise it would be worthy of consideration. But not here. I'd think about folding on the turn, but would realize that if I did call that I would have to call the river (if it was one bet to me).

Doug Funnie II · #5 03-13-2007, 08:27 PM

If everything you stated about their hand ranges is correct, then I think you played it well by not raising the river. That said, what is your image at the table because from SB's perspective PF you could be raising in position to isolate the limper, in which <AJ might make up enough of his range to justify raising river.

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When the Q falls on the turn, SB bets, and next guy calls, I think you're in trouble.

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I disagree with the not overcalling turn part, he already said he was pretty rock solid of what the early limper has so this is a better reason to call turn because he doesn't have to be good against SB as often.

Schneids · #6 03-13-2007, 10:26 PM

I read the responses to this thread and feel like they're to a hand different than what was originally posted.

3-bet the flop. If you cold call on the flop your hand is just as defined as if you 3-bet it, so, 3-bet.

Anyway I'd raise the river because this hand was probably played at canterbury and the guy who is calling in the middle will call another bet.

When he 3-bets you on the river you can probably fold if this is at Canterbury. It sucks to fold, but, it's right to.

Schneids · #7 03-13-2007, 10:30 PM

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i should not have listed him as TAG. preflop hes looser. i also meant not low ace suited. AJ AT A9s A8s
he def has an A here.

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As you suggested you might have done, I would have made it 3 bets on the flop. This gets you more information if you are then raised and are bet into on the turn. Okay, so you call and SB makes it 3, you both call. When the Q falls on the turn, SB bets, and next guy calls, I think you're in trouble. You don't call the turn unless you plan to call the river unimproved. So you have to make your river decision on the turn. There is no way I raise that river after the guy in the middle calls. Perhaps if you were second to act and had a chance of knocking out a better hand then a raise it would be worthy of consideration. But not here. I'd think about folding on the turn, but would realize that if I did call that I would have to call the river (if it was one bet to me).

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As described, considering a fold on the turn is not good.

PokerBob · #8 03-13-2007, 11:21 PM

the limper is not TAG. you are never winning on the river.

MitchL · #9 03-14-2007, 01:14 AM

If you werent gonna 3-bet flop, then when sb made 3 you shouldve made it 4. The pot is now getting big. Who cares about turning your hand over at this point? Now is time to protect it from the possible 4 outs drawing against you.

ssmallz · #10 03-14-2007, 06:39 AM

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If you werent gonna 3-bet flop, then when sb made 3 you shouldve made it 4. The pot is now getting big. Who cares about turning your hand over at this point? Now is time to protect it from the possible 4 outs drawing against you.

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How does 4 betting protect our hand against 4 outters? You think he's going to call 3 and fold to the 4th? Do you really think it makes him more likely to fold on the turn if its checked to us and we bet?