JJ, lot of action

[LFC]

PS, Daly FiFty Grand
1 level
utg looks loose, he limped a lot earlier so not afraid of his limp
whats my play?

PokerStars Game #11219694271: Tournament #56616903, $50+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2007/07/30 - 15:14:30 (ET)
Table '56616903 51' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: famigerato (2970 in chips)
Seat 2: Tugaske (1750 in chips)
Seat 3: Huur (5450 in chips)
Seat 4: randyrockets (2780 in chips)
Seat 5: HERO (2860 in chips)
Seat 6: bigAl223 (3060 in chips)
Seat 7: lucasino (3195 in chips)
Seat 8: amarillion (1690 in chips)
Seat 9: acemaster68 (3205 in chips)
bigAl223: posts small blind 10
lucasino: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
amarillion: calls 20
acemaster68: raises 100 to 120
famigerato: folds
Tugaske: folds
Huur: calls 120
randyrockets: calls 120
HERO: ??

[Mingdu]

raise to 450 ...

You are only behind three hands here so get some money in the pot and see who would like to proceed

the weak play is call and look for set value ... frankly I think that line sucks

[MJBuddy]

I'd raise to 800 here. I'd also highly consider folding to a jam from the initial raiser....but yeah most of the time I'm not.

[Dunkman]

Honestly I'd probably just call...if we hit a set we're gonna stack somebody a lot of the time, and I don't really like raising all these people then folding to a shove from one of them. I'm just bad with JJ and deep stacks though, I think I usually play it too conservatively, then I try to get more aggressive with it and do some boneheaded play where I just wouldn't believe the guy telling me I was crushed.

[Mingdu]

[ QUOTE ]
I try to get more aggressive and do some boneheaded play where I just wouldn't believe the guy telling me I was crushed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this with more than just JJ ...

[oe39]

[ QUOTE ]
raise to 450 ...

You are only behind three hands here so get some money in the pot and see who would like to proceed

the weak play is call and look for set value ... frankly I think that line sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

i think a raise to 450 is weaker than a call... everyone's pot odds will be so big that they will have to call. i like the raise to 800. also, the raiser is the only one somewhat likely to have a hand that beats us, and this way we aren't giving the callers good odds to try to spike a set on us.

[Dunkman]

I agree raising to 450 is just bad. The raise to 800 is certainly a viable play, as is shoving I suppose. Here's my problem(s) with raising to 800, and I don't necessarily think they make it a bad play, but it certainly poses some challenges. First, it is fairly unlikely to fold out everyone, someone with AK or AQ will most likely keep playing, and someone with a smaller pair may make a pretty dumb play and call. Even if only one person calls, the pot is still 2k+ and postflop play will consist of someone pushing and the other guy calling or not...i.e. it negates our positional advantage and actually puts us at a disadvantage since acting first is usually preferable when people only have a psb left. The raise will, for the most part, keep small pairs from hitting a set on us, which is good, since we stand to lose a fair amount of chips on an 8 high flop. It will also fold out KQish type hands that would be correct to call if they knew what we had. The raise will never fold out a better hand, and only rarely be called by a hand that's substantially behind us(maybe 88-TT depending on the villain, and other smaller pairs sometimes by people who are really bad.) I guess I just don't like the raise because it doesn't really give us any room to outplay our opponents.

[chopchoi]

How about 600ish?

[Cornell Fiji]

Is a raise to 800 is a total bluff to try to chase out QQ?

I call and am happy to play positional poker with deep stacks.

[PantsOnFire]

There's a reason they say JJ is a very difficult hand to play in NL holdem is this is one example.

If we raise to 800 and get even one caller, the pot is going to be the same size as our stack. And we all know the percentages of an overcard coming. If our 800 is re-raised, we know we are 55% at best and if the re-raise comes from UTG, he probably has us dominated.

We have almost 150BB. I don't like the idea of building a pot here that is most likely going to lead to an all-in. And if we fold, we've donated 40BB with our raise.

A smaller raise here like 450 will most certainly get a few callers but we will end up with the same size pot and the same postflop problem. Lots of hands like mid-A, KQ, PP, suited and connected hands are going to want to see a flop. And if you don't hit a J, you could be up against a range of possibilities, some of which will be willing to go to war.

I like calling here by a mile with these deep stacks.