Top Set PLO8

[tvta]

i searched on this topic but couldnt find much, only a LO8 post. basically is it ever correct to fold top set with 2 low on the flop when it is basically allin bets?? is this always a go to war situation (given no straight of flush on the flop), or is it ever better to wait till turn when flush/low draw misses and is still committed?

[wackjob]

It can't ever be a big(if any) mistake to push all in with top set when it is the nuts, especially if there is no lo yet. The only hand you are going to be worried about is something where: there are 2 lo cards out, 2 flush cards, and straight cards, where a villain has a two way hand to the nuts both ways, and you have a made hi-only hand. Still, its not a mistake to get your money in, and if you worry that a villain has this type of hand very often, don't. This type of situation is not that common.

[tvta]

sorry but i forgot to add that in the situation im thinking of, 2 of a suit are on board, no straight cards. like flop k58 with 2 hearts and hero having a bare kk with no low draw.

[PorkPieHat]

Still not a mistake to get it all in on the flop, but you can *almost* get your opponent to make the mistake of calling when the low and flush don't hit and you get him to call a PSB on the turn. He will will likely have the odds to call you.

[bbartlog]

It's theoretically possible for a fold to be correct if villain has flush draw plus a huge wrap plus low draw with backup. For example, on a board of K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you are a 70/30 dog if opponent has something like 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Realistically, though, you will more often be up against something less monstrous like just NLD+NFD, which is close to 50/50.

But anyway, you asked whether it's a mistake to go all-in on the flop given the option to do so. In general, yes. It is usually better to leave enough behind so that you can pot the turn if the cards come to your liking, or fold if they don't. You want to be able to charge villain twice to draw for the low, rather than let him see both remaining cards for a fixed price.
One thing that might affect your choice (especially if villain will always bet the made low aggressively) is the number of possible low cards that won't enable a straight. If the flop is K45, any made low will look very dangerous to us since a straight will always be possible. On the other hand, a flop of K72 is much more congenial. For the former case, it's probably better to exercise pot control, since any low card on the turn will probably make you fold. For the latter case, it's still more profitable to leave some behind so you can bet pot on the turn, but you should make the pot as big as you can while still doing that (and if you overshoot and get it all in you'll never be a big dog on a flop like that).

This has been discussed before, BTW. See this thread .

[bbartlog]

get your opponent to make the mistake of calling when the low and flush don't hit and you get him to call a PSB on the turn. He will likely have the odds to call you.

If opponent has low draw with no backup and only the flush draw for high, then it will be a very small mistake for him to call a PSB on the turn (if a high card comes). But you're right; in general opponent will have odds to call. With a backup for the low draw opponent's equity would be up to 38%. It's even possible for opponent to still be a favorite on the turn, if his draw is massive enough.

Of course some opponents will call a PSB to chase their low even if the board pairs [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]