Q10o vs tag and lag

popeye18 · #1 01-13-2006, 06:07 PM

MP here is a tag with like 20/10 stats over 100 hands. Hes tight pre and post flop and ive bet him out of alot of hands. Button is like 50/20 or so and does alot of stupid things. On 2 hands ive let him bluff me on every street and both times he showed absolute crap on the river.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP folds, Button calls.

River: (7.20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

#2 01-13-2006, 06:10 PM

i dont like it one bit - if it worked, congrats but i think you dodged a bullet

LAGs tend to look you up with some pretty crappy holdings - also you are bluffing against 2 opponents, not one. i wouldnt mind seeing you make this play against either ONE of them -but not both

popeye18 · #3 01-13-2006, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
also you are bluffing against 2 opponents, not one. i wouldnt mind seeing you make this play against either ONE of them -but not both

[/ QUOTE ]

Im 99.9 % sure MP is folding here. I can think of nothing hes checking through on the flop that hell call 2 with on the turn.

slamhound · #4 01-13-2006, 06:17 PM

I don't see the LAG ever folding a better hand, and the pot is way too small. You also end up calling a three-bet on the turn. Do you think your hand has any showdown value against the LAG?

Mister Z · #5 01-13-2006, 06:22 PM

I think it's great. Not a play I would make often but I think you picked a good time. Gotta follow through on the river.

True · #6 01-13-2006, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's great. Not a play I would make often but I think you picked a good time. Gotta follow through on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it for a lot of reasons, he will call the turn with an FD of any kind and then fold many of his possible holdings to you and sometimes call with mediocre holdings.

I don't like the call preflop against a TAG but each to his own.

Mister Z · #7 01-13-2006, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the LAG ever folding a better hand, and the pot is way too small. You also end up calling a three-bet on the turn. Do you think your hand has any showdown value against the LAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a valid point on the pot being small, but I think there is a significant chance that MP has nothing and will actually fold this river pretty often. Which is why we're betting this river - obviously we have no showdown value.

deception5 · #8 01-13-2006, 07:15 PM

I wonder if check/calling the river would occasionally win an extra bet. I can't imagine him folding any hand on the river that you beat (won't he call here with ace high or a pair of 2's?), but you may be able to induce a bluff.

#9 01-13-2006, 07:27 PM

Hmm, the Button called 2 cold preflop. He may suck, but that still means something. I doubt you're folding him out. I would have just called the turn and folded the river UI. I think if the MP would call 1 BB he'd call 2 with whatever hand it might be (like nut flush draw). I don't think your raise is really chasing him out in this particular case.

olliejen · #10 01-13-2006, 07:49 PM

i hate it.

your turn plan is to pump in 3BB to win 4, maybe 5, in the hopes that he'll either:
1. fold a better hand, maybe a busted draw.
or
2. his crap at showdown is worse than yours.

1 is possible, but if he's shown down crap, i think you should be inclined to believe he'll do it here too.
2 is (less) possible as well, but i don't believe that you win enough under either scenario to make this type of play profitable.