Hit with top pair, but T kicker?

[maverickai]

SB is 39.9/4.82/.81 83 hands

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

I have problem playing hands like JT, QT, KT, AT post flop when the higher card hits the flop to give me a top split pair. cos the of the mid kicker, there are actually quite a handful of kickers that the villian might have to outkick me. How do I assess situations like this?

How should I have played the hand above?

[Sushiglutton]

There is no standard play here. On the turn you need to decide how often ur opp is having a worse hand (flush draw or Qx). If you feel this opp wouldn't CR flop, bluff turn 'often enough' then u need to start counting your outs.
You need reads in poker to make good plays.

Here ur opp looks passive so u are probably not getting the correct odds to continue on the turn. I doubt he would CR a worse Q. But like I said u can't play without reads.

[Fantam]

Sometimes your opponent may have 2 pair, a Q with a better kicker or have you beat some other way.

But, you have some outs on the flop and turn against a number of 2 pair hands, and sometimes your opponent will have overplayed a Q with a weaker kicker.

As Sushi said a good read on your opponent would help. However, without a read I think that you played this hand fine.

[Reaction]

Fold the turn. You have top pair against a passive player who c/r flop flop and lead the turn. I doubt that a nut flush pushes this hard (maybe 67c?). You might have 3 outs.

Also, make a note on UTG+1

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the turn. You have top pair against a passive player who c/r flop flop and lead the turn. I doubt that a nut flush pushes this hard (maybe 67c?). You might have 3 outs.

Also, make a note on UTG+1

[/ QUOTE ]

over 83 hands ... you can't really determine the characteristics of a player by stats.

unless you specifically noted a couple of hands ...
like:
donkey calls down top pair
donkey call down 2nd or middle pair
donkey calls down ace high and raises rivered ace (or just calls)

the guy is pretty much unknown, using stats.

this is an easy call down ...

[Smurph64]

I have to agree here without reads this is a simple call down and a definite note hand.

While the 83 hand results are significant its also possible to be completely misleading.

I have one guy who has shown me his stats on me over 150 hands showing 12/2/1.5 and I know some guys have me at 50/40/6 over 100+ hands.

They don't see my hole cards so they have no clue how I am running.

Knowing betting patterns is a lot more relevant than knowing stats.

[BigBadBabar]

just call down, folding is terrible and raising more isn't great either

[Blzdwrath]

*GRUNCH*

I fold the turn here.

Reason being the SB completed pre-flop then check-raised you on flop. Given his .83 agression factor I'd put him on atleast an over pair or two pair. A set is just as likely also (I've seen many people complete with low pocket pairs i.e. 55, 88).

When he leads the turn this is more testament to his strength. I would not expect him to try another check-raise because he'd be worried you'd check behind after seeing him check-raise the flop.

So you made it to the river and he leads again. This tells me he probably did not check-raise the flop with a flush draw.

To sum it up, I would have bailed on the turn.

[Smurph64]

folding on the turn is definitely a mistake and you lose a lot of money playing it that tight, unless you have some information on his hole cards the sample is way too small to judge indescriminately with.

If it weren't for the aggression factor making this a call I would 3 bet the guy so I get a shot at the free card.

If he goes over for the cap and leads the turn then I might consider folding but probably will still call down.

I definitely want to know if he has a blind special here or a legitimate hand. If I fold this to him now, well I don't know why I would continue to play at this table.

He easily could have two pair, or one pair. I have a lot of outs potentially if I am behind. It's really one of these hands where you just need to know what the sb is doing.

Assuming he thinks like you and therefore folding is one mistake I still make but try hard to recognize situations where calling down like a pansy is still good.

I just played a hand where I had KJs in the CO and I open raised it.

The sb 3 bet it and the bb capped.

Flop came Q 2 6 with no flush possibilities and I faced a bet and a raise so I folded.

Turn came a K, river was a 4 and BB won when his 84o on the river beat SB A2o pair.

Subsequently, because of this knowledge that I got from this hand because they were both idiots bluffing at the same pot, I was able to slaughter them later for many many bets.

Gleaning reads on your opponents in these situations where you have a decent made hand that wins even when facing aggression is enough to warrant the weakness in the pot by calling down.

[Daniel Magix]

SB's range opens up a bit more, since he was completing.
What hands would just complete from SB, that would try a CR on that flop? A8c/Q8/Q7/55/88/58/QJ/KQ
Perhaps you could include 67 and any two-club hand, but that may be a stretch.
My first response when I read the OP, was that I play it identical - call down after the flop. But now I am having trouble finding a range that we are ahead of on the turn. It's also a small pot, so that doesn't help my decision. Am I missing some potential hands that he may be holding?