Early in 10/180 - flop two pair on scary board...

Ontario_Tory · #1 06-27-2007, 04:32 PM

No reads, we're about 3 or 4 hands in.

1) Is my raise bad?
2) What's my play now? Do we put villain on AK or QT?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 (t1480)
CO (t1480)
Hero (t1470)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1700)
UTG (t1380)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1790)
MP2 (t1220)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls t20, 1 fold, MP1 calls t20, MP2 raises to t80, 2 folds, Hero calls t80, 2 folds, UTG calls t60, MP1 calls t60.

Flop: (t350) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets t60, MP1 raises to t120, MP2 folds, Hero raises to t500, UTG folds, MP1 raises to t1710, Hero ???

SonofDjugashvili · #2 06-27-2007, 04:39 PM

He limped and called a subsequent raise in a multi-way pot, so AK is pretty much out unless this guy is a complete dufus. For the same reason, you can ignore the possibility of AA KK or JJ. QT sure looks possible - certainly fits the pattern. KQss sure fits too, doesn't it? AJ is possible. That small flop raise is either dumb, or hoping not to kill the action, so I would lean heavily toward a made hand. I think it's a fold. Let me guess - you called, and he showed you a set of aces? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Sherman · #3 06-27-2007, 04:44 PM

I think it is a fold too. Against any reasonable opponent you are always behind or facing a combo draw.

I had a similar hand the other day QJ on a AQJ flop. Villain had AJ obv. That's what I get for CC raises with QJ.

Mingdu · #4 06-27-2007, 04:45 PM

his limp/call pre could be anything

his range is huge and you are way ahead of all the possibilities, including flush and straight draws

To each his own but this early, preflop, I fold this with limpers and a raise

I call this btw because you are ahead lots and have boat possibilities that give you outs

8Adam8 · #5 06-27-2007, 04:50 PM

I fold to the bet and minraise.

SonofDjugashvili · #6 06-27-2007, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
his limp/call pre could be anything

his range is huge and you are way ahead of all the possibilities, including flush and straight draws

To each his own but this early, preflop, I fold this with limpers and a raise

I call this btw

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely re PF, but... is the villain's range really that huge? If he just flat-called on the flop, then, sure, I can see 87ss or some such thing, but that min-raise throws me - the typical 10/180 doesn't do that with just a flush draw. It really reeks of a made hand, or a S/F draw at least. Granted, he can simply be an idiot, but this just doesn't look like a typical donk "let's gambool" play.

Mingdu · #7 06-27-2007, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
his limp/call pre could be anything

his range is huge and you are way ahead of all the possibilities, including flush and straight draws

To each his own but this early, preflop, I fold this with limpers and a raise

I call this btw

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree completely re PF, but... is the villain's range really that huge? If he just flat-called on the flop, then, sure, I can see 87ss or some such thing, but that min-raise throws me - the typical 10/180 doesn't do that with just a flush draw. It really reeks of a made hand, or a S/F draw at least. Granted, he can simply be an idiot, but this just doesn't look like a typical donk "let's gambool" play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah ... misread the min bet ...

Still the quality of play isn't that great and the range is huge. I'd call in this spot

Def. call the min bet instead of raise there and see what comes along. The reraise to 500 is begging to get shoved on

jgunnip · #8 06-27-2007, 05:15 PM

I'm not a big fan of the pf call. For a 3xbb raise maybe but 4x is pushing it for me but whatever I'm a ubernit.

Flop action is gross, I'd prolly just call or maybe fold. If I three bet I'm not folding.

SonofDjugashvili · #9 06-27-2007, 05:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
his limp/call pre could be anything

his range is huge and you are way ahead of all the possibilities, including flush and straight draws

To each his own but this early, preflop, I fold this with limpers and a raise

I call this btw

[/ QUOTE ]

I do agree with just calling the min-raise on the flop. At least then, when another J comes you can get all your money in and lose to the higher boat with a clear conscience. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Highly recommend reading Ferguson in the new FT Strategy Guide re playing bottom 2p. Would certainly seem to apply to this situation.
Agree completely re PF, but... is the villain's range really that huge? If he just flat-called on the flop, then, sure, I can see 87ss or some such thing, but that min-raise throws me - the typical 10/180 doesn't do that with just a flush draw. It really reeks of a made hand, or a S/F draw at least. Granted, he can simply be an idiot, but this just doesn't look like a typical donk "let's gambool" play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah ... misread the min bet ...

Still the quality of play isn't that great and the range is huge. I'd call in this spot

Def. call the min bet instead of raise there and see what comes along. The reraise to 500 is begging to get shoved on

[/ QUOTE ]

SonofDjugashvili · #10 06-27-2007, 05:32 PM

Oops, screwed up my post. Just saying that I agree with calling the min-raise on flop instead of r/r. That way when you catch your J you can lose all your chips to the higher boat with a clear conscience. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Also, recommend reading Ferguson in the ne FT Strategy Guide re playing bottom 2p on a dangerous flop. Very applicable here.