A kind of rambling C/T post

[jaxUp]

These ideas aren't fully developed, and is just kind of a thought I had a couple of days ago. I'm very open to discussion on this. It might go better in psych, but I'm posting it here because it's directed specifically at players who are new to winning, and because the micros rule. I would like to thank everybody who has helped me develop over the last year.

This post is aimed at players who have already established themselves as winning players (or plan on becoming winners in the future).

Now that you are getting better, you will be faced with new psychological problems, which can actually be tougher to deal with. Before, when you were losing, and didn't know anything about odds, the biggest problems you had were mathematical. You thought that you could win by just playing passive (and likely loose) poker, and not worrying about the EV of your decisions.


On Entitlement
Now that you are consistently (I hope) making +EV decisions, it is easy to feel like you should always be winning. In fact, one of the biggest problems that decent-good players face is a feeling of "entitlement." They feel like they have the right to win, since the people that they are playing against have little to no idea what they are doing. This, in my experience, is the primary cause of tilt. Good players get upset that somebody who is playing poorly is doing well in the short term. This usually culminates in a suckout on the river or "chasing" a gutshot with improper odds.
Hmmm...I'm just thinking about entitlement, and I guess over the long term, it is ok to feel entitled. The real problem exists with HOW we feel entitled. When you make a decision with a positive expectation, you only ever expect to win a certain percentage of the time. So, it would be ok to feel entitled to X% of the pot, since you can expect to win that often.
The problem with this, of course, is that you tend to think only in terms of the given hand. When you win the pot, your sense of entitlement feels fulfilled, and when you lose, you tend to feel betrayed. However, if you can wrap your head around the idea that every time you make a +EV move, you win X% of the pot, you will have a much more positive experience. Most people are not capable of this sort of detached thinking, and hence it is better for them to try and avoid any feeling of entitlement at all.
If you can manage to avoid feelings of entitlement, not only will it have a less emotional impact on you to lose or win (which can be very draining). You will tilt less, and be in a better frame of mind to be making mathematical decisions, increasing your earnings.


Most players will never learn to become detached like this while playing. On a related note, most players will never be winners.

-Brad

[sarsen]

Brad,

Great Post. I think you're on to something. What do you think about that fact that many of us who post here also have a general disdain for players we call 'fish' or 'donks' and that this can contribute to our feelings of entitlement. We know proper play and tactics, they don't. I'll admit to schadenfreude when I milk a fish for the maximum # of bets.

[jaxUp]

This disdain for donks and fish is exactly what leads to tilt. You feel that because they don't have a good understanding of odds and tactics that they are somehow "not worthy" to hit their 5 outer on the river. This kind of thinking regularly ruins what would otherwise be successful sessions.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
schadenfreude

[/ QUOTE ]

nh.

unless you misspelled it.

people who have disdain for "fish" either suck at poker or don't understand poker. or both.

[sarsen]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you misspelled it.

people who have disdain for "fish" either suck at poker or don't understand poker. or both.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I had to go double check my spelling.
schadenfreude

Fish are the reason we make money. I try to always congratulate them on a 'nh' when the suck out. Makes them think they played well and hopefully keeps them coming back.

[ajm36]

Nice post. I think much the same way, but I just haven't called it entitlement. I look at my bankroll as risk capital. Every hand I play, I put a small percentage of my bankroll directly at risk--I have to in order to make money. Every decision I make has a certain Reward:Risk (ratio) associated with it. I need to know that my Reward is greater than my Risk and that I win often enough under these conditions to show a profit. I uncover these favorable conditions by reading, on this forum, and through experience at the table. This is not about the game (although I love the game) this is about making money. As long as I look at it this way, and keep my focus, all is well. But you are right. How you handle a string of losses can greatly affect your bankroll. If I become emotional over the bad play and suckouts (I'm really becoming emotional over the loss of money and it is manifesting in my anger towards my opponents), I start tying myself emotionally to hands and pots. This is tilt. When I recognize this pattern of behavior in myself, I need to stop playing, and then I need to drop limits. This is my take on it and I like your's as well. Thanks for the post, it got me thinking.

[Buzz-cp]

I have just started cursing at them in German (using babel-fish). I only do this to keep them there and for also for my own catharsis.

[Mathieu]

Nice post. I think this "entitlement" syndrome is fairly common, and I have been guilty of it myself. I agree that this can lead to tilt. I'll add this into my favorites as a reminder to appreciate the "Sklansky bucks". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Kwaz]

I take great pleasure in my sense of entitlement.
But I don't care whether I win or lose a hand.

All that matters is that I got most of my money in when ahead and the least when behind.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
...I'm posting it here because it's directed specifically at players who are new to winning, and because the micros rule...

[/ QUOTE ]

Same reason I don't post in small stakes.

Weird thing is, I'm sure small stakes rules... I just haven't been exposed to it yet. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]