Ask TheMetetron about living in or visiting Buenos Aires, Argentina

[TheMetetron]

Note: This thread was originally posted in the Travel Forum. After Mat killed the forum, it was moved against my wishes to the Lounge. El Diablo suggested just restarting the thread in OOT if I felt it would do better here, so that's what I'm doing.

This thread was originally not posted in OOT because I felt it wouldn't get much serious discussion and would turn into Degen's "Orgies In Thailand" type of thread (not that there is anything wrong with that). I'm doing this thread because I hope it is actually useful to some and gets more people interested in this great city/country. Don't let me down OOT.

I will be reposting the best questions/answers from the last thread. I hope that isn't a problem for anyone.


I've got too many PM's the last few days asking about it, so if I'm going to answer all of these questions I mine as well do it in public so I don't have to repeat myself and so everyone can benefit from it.

Types of things I'll answer:

- Different neighborhoods: cost, feel, safety, things to do in each
- Argentine culture and history
- Visas
- Other cities in Argentina besides BsAs and things to do in them
- How to find an apartment
- Getting around the city and to/from the airport
- Language questions and questions about tango classes
- Cost of living and Argentine currency
- Nightlife: bars and nightclubs
- Restaurants, sidewalk cafes, delivery
- Theatre: tango shows, opera, plays, musicals, symphonies
- Sights to see, markets to visit
- Weather, seasons, etc
- Playing poker online here or questions about casinos here
- Pretty much anything else you want to ask about. Hookers, weed, whatever, I'm game for pretty much anything. I'm sure I've forgotten to mention some important stuff.

I'll start the thread off with some PMs I've received but feel free to add in your own questions. Keep in mind, I've only been here about 3 weeks now, but I did a ton of research before coming, I lived in a different country before this, and I have friends here who have lived here for more than a year... if I don't know the answer I can promise to find out for you. Perhaps some of the other 2+2 BsAs will show up from time to time.

[TheMetetron]

Question from anonymous:

[ QUOTE ]
... what brought you to argentina? argentina seems liek a great place to me because it's spanish speaking which is what i'm learning, it sounds like it has all the culture and cool stuff of the US or europe, but is cheap, and different and latin american at the same time. do you know anything about language schools in buenos aires, or even colleges (is it hard for an american with bad grades like myself) to get it? and finally, have you learned the tango down there??? oh actually finally, argentina is super cool because they're so big on soccer too, how does that work for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

My answer:

I came to Argentina for pretty much the reasons you stated. Winter in Sweden was getting a bit too cold for my tastes and I was getting a bit bored with the small town I was living in. I wanted to move back to a big city and I was really looking to something Spanish speaking. Spain was going to be pretty damn hard and I'd already done the Europe thing. Buenos Aires just had everything come together for it: easy visa requirements, Spanish speaking, very cheap cost of living, lots of expats to help as a support network, tons of world-class theatre (opera, symphonies, musicals, play), beautiful women, one of the best nightlifes in the entire world, beautiful Euro-inspired architecture, temperate weather, lots of variety like California (skiing, glaciers, awesome beaches, big wine country, etc), as well as the fact that it was summer instead of a cold ass winter .

A 2+2er friend of mine is actually a part owner of a language school out here that also has a really good tango instructor that is usually really good at pulling in lots of girls for the classes, but he recently had knee surgery so I'm not sure how long he is out of commission.

Language school are generally pretty easy to get started on if you give them a few days notice. You can get private classes for $8-10 per hour with an instructor to work the hours you want and on what you want. It's the best way to go because you move much faster than with a group class and you can always get lessons tailored to you (for example... I want to learn how to order at a restaurant or how to pick up on girls or how to get my laundry done, etc). However, if you want to save a bit of money you can do group classes for $4-6 per hour with a class size of 2-5 depending on how many people are near your level. You can take as few or as many classes as you'd like. I currently take 2 hours a day, 5 days a week of private classes. If you are only here for a week and wanted to maximize your learning you could do 4 hours.

One other thing to keep in mind is that the Spanish here is slightly different. There are really only two big differences. First, the city of Buenos Aires (along with Uruguay) the only places in the world to use the word "vos" instead of "tu". So instead of "tu eres" it is "vos sos". Tu is still used in the possessive and most of the regular verb conjugations stay the same, but other irregulars change like "tu tienes" becoming "vos tenes" or "tu quieres" becoming "vos queres". The teachers here obviously know the tu form and will have no problem just teaching that to you if that is what you want, though the rest of the Spanish world will understand if you used vos for example... they'd just know you learned in BsAs; much like we'd know someone using British slang is from there.

The other difference is that the "ll" is not pronounced like an English "y" but rather like an English "sh". The Spanish "y" is also pronounced like the English "sh". Again, the teachers won't do that if that is what you want, but that is the way everyone speaks here, so "Yo", "calle", and "llamas" may sound weird to you at first. It doesn't take long to get used to though.

Then there are also some slang words or words that are different. "Che" is used a lot as a polite way of getting someones attention if you don't know their name and also seems to have extended into a friendly term among friends (and a joke to US expats). Words that are different include "heladera" instead of "refrigerador" and other things like that which can be sort of confusing the first time.

As for tango, I personally haven't taken classes yet, but I believe they are around the price of group Spanish classes and possibly even cheaper (since the class sizes are usually larger, though there are 2 instructors). So I'd expect $3-6/hr for tango classes to be average. If you are going to be here a long time it's something you have to do a the very least as a way to meet girls or other people.

They are very big on soccer and if you are here during soccer season (Feb-June) or (August-Dec) and they are playing you have to go to a Boca Juniors game which is apparently an experience unlike anything you'll ever see. There are also some young twenty-something expats who get together for pick-up games of soccer on I think Mondays and if you speak Spanish and make friends pretty much everyone plays soccer sometime. Unfortunately due to my injury it's hard for me to run so I haven't gotten into it yet but I'm hopeful.

Useful Links:

Academy Recoleta - Run by Juan and a 2+2 friend, it has Spanish classes (private and group) and tango classes. This is where I go and pay $10/hr for private lessons.

Interhispanica - Another academy in the Recoleta neighborhood that has Spanish classes. No tango here though. I believe private classes are $8-9/hr.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Met,

Thanks again for the info. If you don't mind, I have another set of near daily questions for you

Just looking at the ByT Argentina site, it seems as if the Palermo district is a little more "suburby" than downtown. Is it possible I could find a house with a yard in this area to rent? Are you aware of other places in Argentina that are low in crime but more like suburbs or rural? Do you know a good leasing agent I could take to to discuss various housing options? I think I would like the big city but having a dog may make it difficult.

Also, any advice on the best way to learn Spanish quickly? I took a couiple of years in high school so I probably remember some of the basics.

If I make it down to BA I'd definately like to buy you some beers for all your help

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, you don't want to live downtown (Recoleta is not downtown). Ideally you probably want to live in Recoleta, Palermo, Belgrano, or Barrio Norte. I'd stick with Recoleta and maybe Palermo when you first move here and the consider relocating later.

Palermo isn't suburby and Recoleta has more open park spaces, but it IS possible to find some places in Palermo with a small yard which is impossible to do in Recoleta. Recoleta is more 6 story and higher apartments with restricted entry and a doorman. Palermo is more 2-3 stories and don't have such things and things are definitely a lot more spread out there than in Recoleta. I can't give you exact information but I did go to a party last weekend at a nice 2 story, 2-bedroom condo with a decent sized backyard (by city standards) in Palermo and they are paying about what I am for a 1 bedroom in Recoleta. Not sure where they found it or I'd try to point you in the right direction.

As for other cities in Argentina, the farthest out you probably want to go is some of the nicer actual suburbs of Buenos Aires. I wouldn't move to other parts of the country. Unfortunately, it's city life for me so I don't know anything about the suburbs.

There aren't really leasing agents for foreigners. You can't get an actual lease because you need a guarantor, therefore you can of stick with getting fleeced by the furnished rentals (though if you shop around it's not so bad).

As for learning Spanish, I sort of answered the question above. I'd recommend 10 hours a week of private instruction. I took three years in high school as well and after one week I'm already back to stuff I was learning in the middle to end of my second year. It comes back pretty quickly, but the biggest hurdle is speaking and understanding people, as well as building a large vocabulary to allow you to get around.

Beers are always appreciated, though at $2.50 for a 3L pitcher, I think you could part with more than a few [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[By-Tor]

tl;dr


<font color="white">far to easy, yet hard to resist </font>

[TheMetetron]

For fun, here are some random pictures that I either took or got from online of Buenos Aires and Argentina.


This is my apartment in Buenos Aires. Not pictured are a kitchen, bedroom, bathroom, and balcony.


The street I live on. As you can see it doesn't feel like you are going to die.


The Teatro Colon. It's the national theatre and has it's own orchestra, ballet company, opera group, and is home to many other events. Unfortunately, it is closed for renovation until the end of the year in preparation for its 100th anniversary. All productions were moved elsewhere.


Teatro Colon at night. Beautiful shot.


Casa Rosada, the presidential palace of Argentina


Avenida 9 de Julio. I admit it's an artistic shot, but it's all I have. The widest street in the world.


Plaza Once Subway Station


No idea where this is but it shows some of the open spaces.


Puerto Madero


Rush hour


I'll post more later.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you line up a permanent apartment before you went there? Or did you stay somewhere temporarily first (a hotel or whatever)? If you had the apartment before you showed up, how did you know what neighborhood you wanted to live in?

What hoops do you have to jump through if you want to play on Party/ use Neteller/ do other things that Americans can't do anymore? What did poker sites do to make sure that you were giving them a real address?

Do they have any American sports on cable TV channels?

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually had my apartments lined up for the first 7 months I will be here. I sort of lucked into getting the perfect location that I would have wanted had I known more. I just made sure I was staying in Recoleta and it was sort of hard to screw up.

I'd recommend getting a place for one month in Recoleta or Palermo. Then explore the city and see what area you like best. From there you can get a longer rental somewhere else and even see the place before you commit.

I lived in Sweden before living in Buenos Aires, so I've been able to play on every site for a while. Most sites want a scan of your passport and an electricity bill or lease agreement with your name and address on it. Party will even cross-check your IP the email is coming from to make sure you are in the right country you say you are and they also check your IP when you long on.

I fund my accounts with my Swiss bank account via bank wire. I'm trying to figure out how I want to fund my party account at the moment but I think I'm going to need to order a Visa from my bank and do it that way as they get upset I live in Argentina yet want to use a bank in Switzerland.

For TV, there are a bunch of different levels of programming. I get VH1, CNN, MTV, ESPN, and a few other American channels. You could probably get the whole lineup if you are willing to pay enough. Usually cable is included in your apartment price, but you may be able to upgrade. Using a slingbox or other such device is another way to watch American TV if you are so inclined. I usually just stick to [censored]. I don't really care, but it won't get you sports.

Also, for sports, you may as well get used to lots and lots of soccer. That's the only sport you are going to hear people talk about and see constantly on TV. But it is for a good reason, Argentina is actually pretty damn good.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can actually get a real residence visa as a poker player if that is what you prefer to do. I'll probably go through the trouble some day.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you doing right now to stay in Argentina. Once your 90 or whatever day visa is up what do you do? I, like some others here, are looking to relocate for awhile, but i don't wanna have to move to a new country every 90 days. Can you do visa runs or anything like that?

If anyone has anymore information about applying for a self-employment visa (poker) please feel free to chime in.

What is the climate like year round in Argentina? Are the beaches nice?

[/ QUOTE ]

Argentine Tourist Visa Information

When you arrive they will ask you the purpose of your visit. Just say you are a tourist. They will stamp your passport with a Visa that is good for 90 days. This is free. They will give you something to give them on your way out, but if you lose it isn't the end of the world.

Within the first 60 days (or while you still have at least 30 days left on that visa), you can go down to someplace in BsAs and get it extended for another 90 days for a 100 peso ($33) fee. In this manner you are essentially getting a 180 day tourist visa. This can only get an extension once per entry into the country.

So after 180 days, you must leave. Fortunately, Buenos Aires is on the water and Uruguay is right across from it. You can take a 120 peso ferry to Colonia and back that will take about 9 hours roundtrip. I believe they have an express ferry that is around 200-250 pesos and will take you one hour each way (plus around two hours of waiting time in Colonia in which to grab lunch or something). When you come back on the ferry you get a new 90 day visa even if it is the same day.

You can also obviously leave to Chile, Brazil, the USA, or any other country and get a new visa when you return, but Colonia, Uruguay is the closest. If you overstay your visa, you have to pay a fine on the way out. I've never heard of anyone getting too much of a hassle when trying to return after overstaying their visa, but I've heard it can mess up you getting a residence visa at a later date. Also, they are free to change their mind at any point.


For the residence visa you need to either set up an Argentine corporation and hire yourself as a necessary employee (some sort of BS managerial role) or you need to be receiving sufficient dividends from investments (can even be in your own offshore corporation) to sustain yourself in Argentina. It's complicated and sucks. Plus you owe taxes on worldwide assets if you have residence here.

Buenos Aires is about the same latitude as San Diego. It is more humid, but not Florida like. The summer average high is in the mid 80s. The winter average high is around 60. So pretty temperate. Here is a link to weather.com's averages for Buenos Aires.

For beaches, there are no beaches in Buenos Aires. It is a port city. However, Mar de la Plata is about a 4 hour bus ride away, and Punta, Uruguay is a tad bit longer on a ferry. Both are really good beaches. Argentina has a very diverse range of landscape in the country, much like the USA. Argentina has glaciers, snowy mountains for skiing, a huge wine country, beaches, etc. If you live here there is ton to see outside of the city.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks Metetron!

So if i understand you correctly, you can do boarder runs infinitely. After i come back from a boarder run from say Colonia, can i get an another extension?

Thanks again. Great thread!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. In a year period, you could come get your original 90 day visa, get one extension, go to colonia, get another extension, and then not have to leave again until a year from your original entry date.

[The DaveR]

I found your intended post.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Sweet thread, thanks.

Have you looked into buying real estate? Can foreigners do it? Do you think it is/would be a good investment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you can, but you have to through some processes first. I intend to do it at some point as buying a place is cheap compared to what it rents to foreigners for. For example the place I rent for $1,000/mo or so definitely didn't cost the owner over $100k... probably even less.

[ QUOTE ]
Are there casino's? Live poker?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, there is a casino with pretty much everything you could want, except of course much live poker. It might just be because it is the summer but they didn't have anything the one time I was there. One of the people nearby said they somewhat regularly get $600 buy-in sit n go's going and they are supposedly fairly fishy. I intend to check it out at some point.

[ QUOTE ]
How late are the club's open?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't even go to a club before 1 and see anyone there. People tend to file out on their own a few hours after sunrise... so 7 or 8 in the morning.