Stealing the blinds

kabouter · #1 03-08-2007, 07:17 AM

I was wondering what everybody thinks about stealing from the button, and from the Cutoff.

Phil Gordon says:
I like to steal from the cutoff seat about twice as often as I do from the button. Sure if his opponents are weak-tight he'll steal as often from the button. But then again everyone steals from the button. The cutoff is kinda money.

He makes a reference to the movie swingers, as in what the industry standard is nowadays for calling back a girl, is it 1 day, 2days, 3 days? It's the same with the button, everyone wants to raise from the button.

I kind of agree with this, I feel far more comfortable raising from the CO, when I've got no limpers, then from the Button with a somewhat aggressive player in the blinds. Cause even the donks nowadays see a raise from the button as a steal. Especially with hands like T9s, I raise on the button to $4, and the BB reraises me to $11, I can't call there. The bb might be holding something like ATs but it doesn't really matter, people 3bet less often when the raise is from the CO, unless they got a real powerhouse hand.

I'm not saying I'm getting passive on the button, I'm still abusing it, but I do feel the same way about the cutoff as Phil Gordon.

Sigurd · #2 03-08-2007, 07:54 AM

I think whatever Pokey thinks:
Pokey on blind stealing

kabouter · #3 03-08-2007, 08:14 AM

Ah I agree with everything Pokey says, but he doesn't talk abou the difference between the button and the CO.
Just wanted to see if people agree with what Phil says, or if it's just a bunch of crap.

Bigfoot · #4 03-08-2007, 08:23 AM

That's bad advice. The button is the best possible position you can have, use it to your advantage. If people start calling/playing back more loosely from the blinds, let them. If you're a better player you will be +EV no matter what your cards are because you can simply outplay them. If people are letting you steal their button with CO raises frequently then they are not very good. Whenever someone starts loosely raising the CO you need to start calling/re-raising on the button to steal from them. Play your position and profit.

Freelancer · #5 03-08-2007, 08:35 AM

I doubt raising lighter from the CO than btn is going to do much good, for one most people treat the CO and btn exactly the same in regards to how light they raise and how light they 3bet raises from those positions. So in that regard it won't really matter all that much. Also as bigfoot noted, btn IS the best possible position and although CO is close, the button is still clearly ahead in this regard. Your better of tightening up your raising range if the entire table goes crazy with 3bets, they'r going to be spewing towards you because your range is suddenly more tilted towards premium hands...

munkey · #6 03-08-2007, 09:03 AM

I'm sure have some kind of BTN leak as I am much more consistent from the CO -may be my BTN 'steals' are perceived as that whereas in the CO they think I have a more legit hand -who knows I'm investigating this now, it may just be mostly badly played hands from the BTN[over decent sample size BTW].

Freelancer · #7 03-08-2007, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure have some kind of BTN leak as I am much more consistent from the CO -may be my BTN 'steals' are perceived as that whereas in the CO they think I have a more legit hand -who knows I'm investigating this now, it may just be mostly badly played hands from the BTN[over decent sample size BTW].

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean you win more in the CO than the btn?

Tiki · #8 03-08-2007, 09:12 AM

Let the nature of the players acting behind you dictate how you play/steal.

munkey · #9 03-08-2007, 09:19 AM

No I win more on the BTN, I have way more variance on the BTN though is what I meant -maybe this is normal it is my highest vpvip/pfr spot though I do limp behind 2+limpers a decent amoount time and prob 3bet spew a little.

This is why my BTN pfr is ~ CO I guess, I think I need to raise more in CO/BTN - might just try always raising if I want to play and see how it goes.

Freelancer · #10 03-08-2007, 09:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No I win more on the BTN, I have way more variance on the BTN though is what I meant -maybe this is normal it is my highest vpvip/pfr spot though I do limp behind 2+limpers a decent amoount time and prob 3bet spew a little.

This is why my BTN pfr is ~ CO I guess, I think I need to raise more in CO/BTN - might just try always raising if I want to play and see how it goes.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you play more hands on the button than in the CO than your usually going to have more variance...

Also I can't remember the last time I overlimped preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]