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#1
09-17-2007, 05:59 PM
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CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
Titan Limit Hold'em, $0.50/$1.00 (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero...? Is QJs here good enough to cold call? We have position and probably 3 or 4 opponents in a big pot. Let's assume that we play mostly for flush/str8/2-par+ value and we are also able to fold TPGK. Our raiser here is TAG 17.5/7.8/3.5 over 143 hands. Limp/RR by any of the EP limpers is highly unlikely, BB is unknown. 
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#2
09-17-2007, 06:10 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
Heck, you are pretty much getting 4:1 immediate odds, plus you have position to maximize your value should you hit. Blinds may also come along with all this action.
I cold-call this easily.
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#3
09-17-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
[ QUOTE ]
you have position to maximize your value should you hit. [/ QUOTE ] uh, really? looks to me like we're in a position to knock out the field if we hit.
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#4
09-17-2007, 06:45 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you have position to maximize your value should you hit. [/ QUOTE ] uh, really? looks to me like we're in a position to knock out the field if we hit. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed.. It would be much better if UTG was the raiser with UTG+2 and MP3 cold-calling.
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#5
09-17-2007, 06:51 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you have position to maximize your value should you hit. [/ QUOTE ] uh, really? looks to me like we're in a position to knock out the field if we hit. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed.. It would be much better if UTG was the raiser with UTG+2 and MP3 cold-calling. [/ QUOTE ] While this is true, I still think this is an easy call. I don't mind raising a Q-high flop to blow out the field, or call with a flush draw/straight draw and let the limpers come along. If it were limped to me, I would be a no-brainer raise for value, and while my equity is smaller for being up against at least one stronger than average hand (depending on villain's raising range), there are still enough players in the hand to give the implied odds you need to get in and gamble.
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#6
09-17-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you have position to maximize your value should you hit. [/ QUOTE ] uh, really? looks to me like we're in a position to knock out the field if we hit. [/ QUOTE ] Tyler, what I meant was that Hero would be last to act on every round. By the very definition of why late position is better than early position - because you get to see what other people do before you act, therefore maximizing your $$. If you hit the flop hard and preflop raiser open bets flop, it's a totally different question of what you do.
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#7
09-17-2007, 06:59 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
remy,
our absolute position is best but our relative position is worst.
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#8
09-17-2007, 07:07 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
[ QUOTE ]
remy, our absolute position is best but our relative position is worst. [/ QUOTE ] Sure, I don't argue with that. Depending on the flop texture it might be better to slowplay and flat call the flop.
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#9
09-17-2007, 08:01 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
i would probably call if the other two guys are dorks ... if even one of them has 'standards' this hand is junk - IMO
the good thing is ... the PFR looks slightly weak (by that I mean foldy) ... low PFR and high AF generally makes me think that (I obviously could be way off - and normally check street stats for aggression and folding)
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#10
09-17-2007, 08:02 PM
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Re: CC raise with QJs in a potential 5-way pot?
i don't think you're picking up what i'm laying down.
you said getting to act "last" is best "because you get to see what other people do before you act, therefore maximizing your $$." however, in some sense, we really aren't acting last because many times, everyone is going to check to the pfr, he will bet, and we have to go next. we have to act *before* we get to see if any of our ep opponents were planning to c/r. contrast this with a situation where we in the sb and the bb raises preflop. we now have the worst absolute position (when the flop comes, we have to push a button first) but the best relative position because we get to see how everyone reacts to bb. this concept is quite basic but is super important, especially when analyzing preflop situations, so i hth.
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