Strat forum mods - a thread for you

[*TT*]

Gild's marketing question about what you put in the window got me thinking. Although I am 1/2 of the mod team (technically 1/3 but JBB is retired) of the B&M forum I often tell the regulars there that they should be spending more time in the strat forums because thats the real gold of 2+2. I always get negative responses when I say something along those lines or move an obvious strategy post out of B&M which really saddens me... these guys obviously love poker but generally they dont realize the mistakes they are making. I always attributed it to see no evil mentality (what they dont know wont hurt them) but this thread recently started in B&M got me thinking that perhaps we can do a better job in the strat forums to become more accommodating to a different class of player. What got me was the belief that the forums are for online players only, in fact one of the owners of AVP (www.allvegaspoker.com) said "Until there are separate online and live strat forums, I will not set foot in them. Period.".

Of course the player in me wants the owner of AVP to sit on my right every day until he goes busto, but the mod in me wants to try to find a way to make the window dressing on the strat forums better so they are not as intimidating to the regular visitors of the high-volume white noise forums such as BBV, OOT, Tournament Circuit and B&M.

Whats your opinion... should we try to increase strat forum page views through diverting regular readers of the non-strat forums, or should we continue as before? If you feel we should try to encourage non-strat readers to spend time in the strat forums, how would you encourage the cross over?

[MrWookie]

I can't speak for the others, but Micro typically gets about one live hand per week or so, and they get good responses. Typically, they are from primarily online players who are giving live a go, but some of them have turned into semi-regular live players.

[Leader]

I think trying to make strat forum posters be more friendly to noobs will probably do more harm then good both to the forums and to the noobs. Regulars don't want people creating useless threads to ask really broad quesitons or posting pretty obvious hands. I tend to deal with these people softly by answering their question and giving advice about better posting "strategy." If I know it's going to turn into a flame fest, I lock the thread. Other posters tend to rip the noobs pretty bad, which isn't a bad thing as long as there's some message in there.

As to the online vs. live thing, there's defiantly a difference, but it is the same game with the same fundamental strategy. I wouldn't be opposed to a couple of live strat forums, one limit/other and one NL. It would be interesting to see how much traffic they got. I think it would hurt the FR limit forums though.

[Big_Jim]

We have a lot of live hands in MSNL.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
We have a lot of live hands in MSNL.

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And there is a lot of live hands in high and mid limit as well. Yet these players still feel alienated. Why?

This is something we have to discover for ourselves, and decide if its worth the effort to help them cross over - do we need the Pied Piper? What is the magical song to get this existing captive audience to get over their fears and feel more comfortable - even if its lurking in the strat forums at first?

the idea of live only strat forums have merit, but I don't think its the best solution.

[nation]

decent amount in full ring that i've noticed past few days.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
I think trying to make strat forum posters be more friendly to noobs will probably do more harm then good both to the forums and to the noobs. Regulars don't want people creating useless threads to ask really broad quesitons or posting pretty obvious hands. I tend to deal with these people softly by answering their question and giving advice about better posting "strategy." If I know it's going to turn into a flame fest, I lock the thread. Other posters tend to rip the noobs pretty bad, which isn't a bad thing as long as there's some message in there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It took RR and I a little while, but we seemed to tame the B&M forum. We really cut down on the flaming by being good examples, and explaining mid-thread how we understand their POV but we need to treat each other with respect - B&M has become a "nice" forum instead of a flame pit. I've seen you try to educate the noobs and you did a great job - your a good leader Leader!, do you think it would help if you also educated the regulars on how to help to the noobs?

Back in the day of RGP the used to complain that the 2+2 forums were filled with elitists. Now that 2+2 is the NY Times of Poker (everyone reads it, but few people actually get it) perhaps only the strat forums still make some users feel unworthy?

I'm sure a good portion of this challenge is the players own feeling of self worth, but thats a separate issue. I remember the first time Steamboating (a perpetual noob but a really nice guy) visited a strat forum, he walked away vowing never to go back - why does it have to be that way, he has the same right to educate himself as we all do (of course his own abilities might be lacking, but thats another topic).

Also - is there anyone who thinks the strat forums are just fine the way they are, keep out the poker loving noobs? I'm not trying to assume anything in this thread, just to promote discussion and possibly a solution if one is needed.

[EMc]

We have none but there are no live uNL stakes

[RR]

I think a big part of this is that B&M players are older than most of the posters on here. Jokes and oneliners that are funny to the teens and 20 somethings that post on here just aren't funny to the B&M players. From time to time these players come into B&M casinos and have to learn that it is not ok to jump up and down and generally act like they do on here. Within the last week I saw a 20 something stand up and start taunting a regular after he trapped him for all his chips in a $30 buy-in tournament. The regular that was being taunted was a Japenese POW for years in WW2 (last summer the local paper wrote a piece about him). I think what it comes down to is that the younger players (both online and in real life) haven't learned to respect people yet. This carries over to posting. It is ok to tell someone they are mistaken. It is not ok to tell someone they are stupid for posting.

[adanthar]

Okay, 100% brutal honesty incoming:

TT...what you're saying about B&M feels a lot like what I got from the stud forum - it's full of bad loose passive nits that hate pushing small edges. On top of that, they don't understand that the Internet has to be taken lightly and get pissed off when they get flamed. Nor does the arrogance of the typical 20-something with an ego to match his roll help the situation.

I don't think there's an easy solution. There are tons of resources available to these guys literally two mouse clicks over, but the regulars of those forums won't give them unearned respect, and the average person you're talking about has too much pride/doesn't understand how much they're giving up to swallow it.

I have no problem with you encouraging them to do so in that thread. I'd be more than happy to post in it myself (95% of my cash play is 5/10 and 10/20 FR NL). What I would not do is encourage a forum like MSNL to be friendly to a 55 year old who's spent 30 years playing the same 2/5 game, makes the same mistakes, and refuses to accept the fact that bet/3 betting a 12 out draw can be a good idea. That just cannot be done without ruining MSNL for everyone currently posting in it.