10NL QQ minraised on paired flop OOP

creamfillin · #1 10-09-2007, 10:59 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($5.90)
Hero ($9.85)
CO ($13.75)
Button ($7.80)
SB ($4.30)
BB ($7.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, CO calls $0.40, 3 folds.

Flop: ($0.95) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.8, CO raises to $1.6, Hero?

Nick C · #2 10-10-2007, 12:44 AM

Goddamit, I hate this spot. I'm at least calling the min-raise, but unfortunately I can't really help you much readless beyond that since I don't know how NL10 plays.

At NL25, I probably play for stacks against an unknown. In theory, that's a damn good flop for your hand.

The problem is, if the entire stacks actually go in, you probably lose. So to some extent you are playing chicken much of the time here, but when you are, Villain will probably throw his hand away at some point if you play back at him.

I don't have any magic line to give you. Calling and re-evaluating on the turn seems reasonable, with the idea of getting to showdown without paying too much if possible, and so does 3-betting immediately with the idea of telling Villain, "There. That's what I think of your 55 or JsTs or ATo. How do you like that?"

creamfillin · #3 10-10-2007, 01:21 AM

I decided to "reevaluate" and the turn came an offsuit king. He wound up betting like 40 cents or some absurd amount so I check-raised and things got really ugly after that. #@%(*&@(#*%& I think the best line is to c/c c/c most rivers cause any raise is going to guarantee getting called by a 7. #*%@(*&%(@*&^

Numfar · #4 10-10-2007, 01:34 AM

I would usually just raise the flop and go with the hand. You get called by 88+.

On the Turn, the K is a scare card - he will no longer go with 88+. So, if you raise you often only get called by a 7 or 33 or a K. Therefore I let him bet small and call here then c/c the River. The possible FD makes this slightly problematic but sometimes its best just to let them draw if you are behind most other parts of their range.

Shattered · #5 10-10-2007, 01:40 AM

Yeah, this spot pretty iffy. Calling and playing this hand OoP kind of sucks, but folding is hardly an option. Without any reads I probably try and get it all in on the flop, I've found that many unknowns at 10NL are bad enough to do convince themselves to call with pretty much any pair and you'll be amazed how often you get called down by A high.

Lego05 · #6 10-10-2007, 03:31 AM

I hate this OOP. Not so hard in position. OOP though I think 3bet the flop and look for a call from his lower pocket pair or flush draw.

IlPug · #7 10-10-2007, 04:34 AM

c/c, c/c seems like a good line, but villains at this level can reverse stackadonk you and giving you a pretty big call on the turn/river with scarecards. villain could also be playing back at you if you've been pushing the table around, or if he's new to the table and trying to set and image, he could be doing this with 66+ trying to value-bet, and JsTs or a pretty, spade ace also fits into this line.

raising him here and getting ai makes the pot simpler, but gritting your teeth and c/c is not bad either.

DennisGPunkt · #8 10-10-2007, 05:08 AM

Ya, I go for C/C all the way. By raising him you just fold out the hands that you got beat, like small/med pps.

teh_minbet_pokr · #9 10-10-2007, 05:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ya, I go for C/C all the way. By raising him you just fold out the hands that you got beat, like small/med pps.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you c/c turn and river if he pots both?

IlPug · #10 10-10-2007, 09:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ya, I go for C/C all the way. By raising him you just fold out the hands that you got beat, like small/med pps.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you c/c turn and river if he pots both?

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes this spot a toughie. I think for alot of players at this level, your gonna be ahead of his range on that flop alot of the time. The c/c line is tougher than making a big raise or gettin AI on the flop because it'll be hard to tell if he makes something on the turn and river (but with queens and this flop, you're really only worrying abt and A, K or that flush, maybe a straight with a 6, 5 or 4), and scare cards like that flush or an ace make calling big turn and river bets pretty tough. There are a bunch of times, especially with players who've just sat down, you will get bluffed like this often so they can see what they can get away with, maybe that makes a flop raise better? Would villain only min raise in this spot with a set? Would he be more likely to call smooth call with a set? maybe just bite the bullet if they re-raise AI? I guess this is sort of read dependent though.

I think its pretty close as to which is more correct, but I doubt he's minraising here with that set, though I've seen stranger things happen.