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#1
07-24-2007, 10:40 AM
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200NL: AK TPTK OOP on bad flop.
Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)
SB: $530.37 BB: $195.40 Hero (UTG): $206.05 MP: $239.00 CO: $199.00 BTN: $199.00 Reads: <font color="blue">Villain is 25/11/3 over 52 hands. I've seen him minraise AJ on a QTx flop in position in a 4-way limped pot and check behind on turn and riv. he's probably just mediocre rather than godawful. absolutely no other reads. I'll post turn and river action after a little while.</font> Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players) <font color="red">Hero raises to $8.00</font>, MP folds, CO calls $8.00, 3 folds Flop: ($19) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets $15.00</font>, CO calls $15.00 Turn: ($49) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero? 
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#5
07-24-2007, 11:34 AM
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Re: 200NL: AK TPTK OOP on bad flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would c/c and c/f river probably [/ QUOTE ] Is this line better than betting $35-40 and folding to a turn raise or c/f the river (if he just calls)? [/ QUOTE ] Yes because checking on the turn may make some villains think you were just cbing and bluff. Instead, if you bet again, you only get stronger hands than yours to call.
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#7
07-24-2007, 11:45 AM
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Re: 200NL: AK TPTK OOP on bad flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would c/c and c/f river probably [/ QUOTE ] Is this line better than betting $35-40 and folding to a turn raise or c/f the river (if he just calls)? [/ QUOTE ] Yes because checking on the turn may make some villains think you were just cbing and bluff. Instead, if you bet again, you only get stronger hands than yours to call. [/ QUOTE ] So then if he fires on the river after you c/c you give him credit for at least two pair? If you want to induce a bluff how come you fold to a river bet after you have shown weakness on the turn? My thinking is that by betting the turn at least you find out if you are behind right away, which I have to agree could be most of the time on this ugly flop.
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#8
07-24-2007, 01:07 PM
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Re: 200NL: AK TPTK OOP on bad flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would c/c and c/f river probably [/ QUOTE ] Is this line better than betting $35-40 and folding to a turn raise or c/f the river (if he just calls)? [/ QUOTE ] Yes because checking on the turn may make some villains think you were just cbing and bluff. Instead, if you bet again, you only get stronger hands than yours to call. [/ QUOTE ] So then if he fires on the river after you c/c you give him credit for at least two pair? If you want to induce a bluff how come you fold to a river bet after you have shown weakness on the turn? My thinking is that by betting the turn at least you find out if you are behind right away, which I have to agree could be most of the time on this ugly flop. [/ QUOTE ] Checking the turn and calling does not show too much weakness. You still called on a pretty bad board. I highly doubt AT- (which is pretty much the only thing you have beat) bets the river there so yes, I'd fold to any substantial (more than half pot) river bet.
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#10
07-24-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: 200NL: AK TPTK OOP on bad flop.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would c/c and c/f river probably [/ QUOTE ] Is this line better than betting $35-40 and folding to a turn raise or c/f the river (if he just calls)? [/ QUOTE ] Yes because checking on the turn may make some villains think you were just cbing and bluff. Instead, if you bet again, you only get stronger hands than yours to call. [/ QUOTE ] So then if he fires on the river after you c/c you give him credit for at least two pair? If you want to induce a bluff how come you fold to a river bet after you have shown weakness on the turn? My thinking is that by betting the turn at least you find out if you are behind right away, which I have to agree could be most of the time on this ugly flop. [/ QUOTE ] Checking the turn and calling does not show too much weakness. You still called on a pretty bad board. I highly doubt AT- (which is pretty much the only thing you have beat) bets the river there so yes, I'd fold to any substantial (more than half pot) river bet. [/ QUOTE ] I have to admit that these type of hands give me a lot of trouble, specially because sometimes I can't fold TP/TK even when I know I'm beat. My point here is to understand which is the best line and I find merits on both of them. To me it comes down to when to find out if your hand is good or not. Either if you bet the turn and check the river, or if you c/c the turn and check the river IMO you are showing weakness. The difference being that if he sees weakness on the turn it will be easier for him to attemp a bluff. How much your opponent will bluff in that situation is what makes each one of the plays better. If he is an agressive player he will most likely try to take the pot away from you if you check the turn. If he is passive and calls your turn bet, then you know you are beat if he bets the river. As I said, to me it comes down to when you have to make a tough decision, on the turn with a $50 pot or on the river, with a $120 pot.
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