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#1
03-10-2007, 02:30 PM
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5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
So I'm playing live HORSE for the first time. S round.
There's a bringin to my right. I have split J's with a rag and call. J's and rag are all live. A 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls. Everyone else folds. 7's are all live. 1 club dead. Villain: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Hero: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Villain bets. Hero? 
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#2
03-10-2007, 03:51 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
I think it would be correct to fold (your not providing enough info, for example are A's live? Are h's?). Villain may have a 4 flush, or a hidden A. Hero is a 1.5:1 dog vs two random cards.
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#3
03-10-2007, 03:59 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
Where is there a live $5/10 HORSE game?
My default play is to raise on third street. I'd call fourth and re-evaluate on fifth. The other guy would bet pretty much anything here, right? Maybe he's got a four-flush, in which case you're probably a small dog. Maybe he's got an Ace in the hole. But if he's got a pair of Sevens, you're winning. I don't see a raise gaining much for you. Call and see what happens.
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#5
03-10-2007, 05:26 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
If you're going to play the jacks, don't limp - raise. That may have solved your problem. If the 7 still overcalls on 3rd, then catches the suited ace, you fold.
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#6
03-10-2007, 05:33 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
If you are first in with split Jacks on Third, and there are no overcards behind you, raise. You usually have the best hand, and will almost always find out if not.
As an aside, the other dead cards may make a big difference here, especially Aces and Hearts, so there is more to this hand that we don't know. On Fourth, If villain has Sevens with an Ace kicker, you are a slim favorite. If he has an Ace-high flush draw, you are about even money. If he now has Aces, you are a significant dog, and if he has made a magic Aces-up, you are in deep doo doo. Unless villain has a rag hand, you're not a strong enough favorite in this pot to feel committed. Opinions differ about what to do on Fourth. Raising isn't bad, but you should do so with the intent to fold if you get three-bet, and against some aggressive villains that's just opening your wallet and letting them help themselves. Folding is weak/tight, but it's a small pot you'd be giving up, and a fold here may embolden villain to bet a worse hand later. Peeling is not really a middle course beween folding and raising, because it tells you nothing about villain's hand, and may let you catch enough of a hand (two pair or a flush draw) to make calling additional bets tempting. In the heat of battle, knowing nothing about the opponent, I probably raise/fold and check behind fifth if I catch anything less than Trips or an Ace of Hearts. Those cards I'd bet. Against an aggressive opponent, I probably call, because aggressive opponents want to get into a raising war and build big pots, so don't let them. An aggressive gambler may have very little here. Against a tight, conservative opponent, I fold.
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#7
03-10-2007, 05:50 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
[ QUOTE ]
If you are first in with split Jacks on Third, and there are no overcards behind you, raise. You usually have the best hand, and will almost always find out if not. As an aside, the other dead cards may make a big difference here, especially Aces and Hearts, so there is more to this hand that we don't know. On Fourth, If villain has Sevens with an Ace kicker, you are a slim favorite. If he has an Ace-high flush draw, you are about even money. If he now has Aces, you are a significant dog, and if he has made a magic Aces-up, you are in deep doo doo. Unless villain has a rag hand, you're not a strong enough favorite in this pot to feel committed. Opinions differ about what to do on Fourth. Raising isn't bad, but you should do so with the intent to fold if you get three-bet, and against some aggressive villains that's just opening your wallet and letting them help themselves. Folding is weak/tight, but it's a small pot you'd be giving up, and a fold here may embolden villain to bet a worse hand later. Peeling is not really a middle course beween folding and raising, because it tells you nothing about villain's hand, and may let you catch enough of a hand (two pair or a flush draw) to make calling additional bets tempting. In the heat of battle, knowing nothing about the opponent, I probably raise/fold and check behind fifth if I catch anything less than Trips or an Ace of Hearts. Those cards I'd bet. [/ QUOTE ] Good post Electrical. Against an unknown why do you choose this line? Against two random cards the villain is a 59% or so favorite, he can still catch an A on a later street, or even another flush card and the game is all but over. Wouldn't it be wiser if your choosing to play on to just call? Personally I fold because the pot is still small, but if your playing on I'd rather keep it cheep. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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#8
03-10-2007, 11:26 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
[ QUOTE ]
Good post Electrical. Against an unknown why do you choose this line? Against two random cards the villain is a 59% or so favorite [/ QUOTE ] I farted around on twodimes for a while and couldn't confirm this. Are you using a stud8 sim instead of 7cs? [ QUOTE ] , he can still catch an A on a later street, or even another flush card and the game is all but over. Wouldn't it be wiser if your choosing to play on to just call? Personally I fold because the pot is still small, but if your playing on I'd rather keep it cheep. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I raise for a number of reasons [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] There was no raise on Third, so there's a chance the dude thinks Ace-high is best right now. [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] People like to bluff Fourth street Aces or flushing boards. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] This is a mixed game, so a player unfamiliar with stud might be betting an underpair with an Ace kicker as the best hand here. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A re-raise from the villain means a real hand or a maniac, and either way the hand just got a lot more expensive, so I'd have a chance to fold before I caught a sucker hand. All of this waffling and confusion would be unnecessary if OP had raised-in on Third. The hand might be over by now.
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#9
03-10-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
Against (K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Twodimes says hero is 51%
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#10
03-11-2007, 12:08 AM
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Re: 5/10 HORSE. Inexperienced at stud.
[ QUOTE ]
I farted around on twodimes for a while and couldn't confirm this. Are you using a stud8 sim instead of 7cs? [ QUOTE ] from memory, I read an article a while back discussing that it was nearly 60/40 with the number of action killing cards being nearly 1/4 of the deck. You are correct of course about 3rd street, I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around your 4th street play. Not that its wrong... its just hard for me to accept. I don't have enough Stud high experience to be a better judge, but from basic theory of poker understanding as played it feels wrong to see 5th street vs that board. TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
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