a couple of 500-1000 hands

[Bluffman]

hands are from yesterdays stars 5-1K game which started off 4 handed but ended up filling up. BZ and i disagreed on all of these.

Hand #1:
Savagegamble raises in EP, baffa threebets on puck. i call with AK in the BB. Savage caps.

Flop T86r. i lead. savage raises. baffa folds.
turn A. my plan?

river 8. my plan?



Hand #2: Peachy and BZ both felt i misplayed.
PeachyMer opens in HJ (9 handed). I defend Js9s. HU on the flop.

flop 8s4s2h. my plan?
turn was a brickish red 7 but gave me a few more outs.
river was an 8.

hand #3:
someone opens UTG and baffa cold calls on puck. i threebet AKos from the BB. flop J74r. I bet. both call. turn is a 5h and bringing two hearts on board. my plan?

[PartyGirlUK]

Pls clean up pf action on hand 1

[Scary_Tiger]

Call preflop in hand 1, I think you should cap. Only hands that fold to cap are hands with 6 full outs to you so I don't see how you don't cap.

Flop lead is to force out the preflop 3-bettor? Which when it works means he has KQ/AQ/AJ basically the hands you want him in with most. I'd prefer to check and see what develops. I'd probably call baffa's raise.

I'd bet the turn and call down a raise.

Um, on the river, how are we going to know if we haven't played the turn? I'd be bet/call if he called turn and check/call if he raised the turn.

Hand 2, I think you should c/r this flop, hoping to catch good cards to fold out K and Q-hi. I'd fire the turn 7, but I would c/f the river 8.

If you c/c the flop, I'd just c/c this turn, and then c/f the river.

Hand 3, I'd bet/call one raise.

[PokerBob]

why would you ever bet that flop in the first hand?

[PartyGirlUK]

Hand one I honestly cant work out why u bet the flop, once he raises Id put him on a big pp, I kinda like donking the turn then c/r the river here, it prevents the turn getting checked back, you are too strong to c/c the turn but if you c/r and get 3 bet it sucks so bet/call down is a good line with a river sexy conceivable, not sure about that yet. Preflop I like just calling.

Hand two you really can take anumber of lines here, important thing is u mix it up

[AndyatSD]

[ QUOTE ]
hands are from yesterdays stars 5-1K game which started off 4 handed but ended up filling up. BZ and i disagreed on all of these.

Hand #1:
Savagegamble raises in EP, baffa threebets on puck. i call with AK in the BB. Savage caps.

Flop T86r. i lead. savage raises. baffa folds.
turn A. my plan?

river 8. my plan?



Hand #2: Peachy and BZ both felt i misplayed.
PeachyMer opens in HJ (9 handed). I defend Js9s. HU on the flop.

flop 8s4s2h. my plan?
turn was a brickish red 7 but gave me a few more outs.
river was an 8.

hand #3:
someone opens UTG and baffa cold calls on puck. i threebet AKos from the BB. flop J74r. I bet. both call. turn is a 5h and bringing two hearts on board. my plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha I was telling everyone they should thank me for getting that game going when BZ goes in an IM rage about how I was not getting a thank-you note because of these hands. He didn't tell me about the specific hands - so I'll take a stab and get my donkey opinions out here.

Hand 1:
I actually think you should cap in this spot but I guess you're asking what we would do if we called pre flop and donked out the flop to the pre-flop capper. Fine. Given that - I think this is an easy check-raise on the turn and fire river. You're representing a decent piece of the board, if Devon has a big pair (which he likely does given his cap) he will correctly continue to value it despite the A on the turn because you did not play it like you have an ace at all so he believes the ace didn't change anything - which allows you to get a check-raise in this spot. If you're beat, then it was already a pretty cold deck scenario to begin with so oh well. I think a lot of people donk-out thinking 'I'm representing that I want to bet-3bet or get value out of a very marginal hand' and it's almost always the latter - so if you get raised it seems like Devon is punishing you with QQ/JJ etc. Punish him back when you spike the ace.

Hand 2: This depends on if you are familiar with Brad's opening ranges from the HJ. It sounds like you're not - so I will just go with a line play of check-raise here and fire all three barrels. Alternatively this isn't a bad spot to donk out and bet the whole way - but playing it any other way would result in that you have to hit to win - and there's actually reasonable chance you can get a good % of his range here to fold if you played this one aggressively. If he pushes back at any point you still have plenty of outs to play it like a straight up flush draw (with a turned gutshot and two overs). You do have to take into consideration that this is a board where a lot of people will turn free-showdown raise with a pair, A high, K high, etc - and that some % of the time I'd 3 bet the turn here with your hand.

Hand 3:

To me it matters who opened UTG. I think there are too many hands that will legitly raise this turn or semi-bluff this turn, that I don't want to commit to 3 bets to seeing a showdown with AK high on this board. I would check turn and see how it develops. If you don't have the Ah I'd be very tempted to call down all the way UI.

~andy

[Heisenb3rg]

I dont know why there are so many haters of just calling PF with AK, capping can often knock out hands you dominate that will pay you off when you both hit, and it disguses your hand, allowing you to get action from worse hands when you hit.
This is a trade off from your equity edge sure.. But its definitly a hand that should be mixed up.
When you cap, if your opponents suspect AKo is a significant part of your range, the action goes basically dead when an A or K flops, while on other boards plenty of semibluffing occurs on later streets to knock you off precisly this hand.
AKs is an always cap for me though.

As for the turn, I think this is a very easy c/r if you believe they are showdown bound. if you think they lay down an overpair, then I bet.

Imagine both you and your opponent were clairvoyent on each others range. A flop raise for protection in his spot, weights his hand to an overpair to the board because of his preflop cap. A CC preflop then a donk on into the PFR on a low flop weights your range towards a middle pocket pair hand seeking protection.
Because of all these factors, it's very unlikely he has a hand stronger than a pair of aces. It's also not very likely you have hit the ace.

Since he's likely ahead and the pot is very large, and you dont likely have an ace, he has little reason to check this card. Then again check/raising this card is a very bold statement, so his showdown standards are very important.

I dont know how crazy you or he plays though.. If he suspects you donk A hi a lot here, and your range is like mid PP or Ax, then he has an easy check behind because he's WA/WB. Which case you want to donk.

Another line to consider for WTF factor is to c/c, and c/r the river. He's always betting an overpair for value on a river < J. Not optimal but its fun to be trixy.. I like to take lines that stop people from value p0wning me on rivers in the future.. But this may not be the best spot.

[baronzeus]

hand 2, peachymer opened in 3 off the button, NOT in the HJ IIRC. that is, i think it was equivalent to "UTG 6 handed"

[baronzeus]

ok, so in hand 2 you're capping preflop, betting the flop, if he raises, you're checking the turn, raising if he bets, and calling down if he 3bets your turn raise? this pretty much seems like the least optimal line of all the lines to take here. and literally allows your opponent to make the perfect play every time.

[AndyatSD]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, so in hand 2 you're capping preflop, betting the flop, if he raises, you're checking the turn, raising if he bets, and calling down if he 3bets your turn raise? this pretty much seems like the least optimal line of all the lines to take here. and literally allows your opponent to make the perfect play every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you talking about Hand 1? Noticed I said that I was going with the GIVEN that Bluffman said that Hero had called pre and donked the flop. I really believe that if I had taken that line then Devon would put me on a piece of the flop and therefore I can take the line I said to on the turn ace.

Now, if I had capped pre flop this would have been my line:

1) Cap Pre
2) Continuation Flop.
3) If I get raised on flop, call and re-evaluate turn.
4) After I called the flop raise, I check call this turn ace.
5) If turn went check bet call and river is not K Q or J I donk river. If river is one of them I check-call again.
6) If turn went check check I probably bet any river - although something inside me wants to check raise anyway.

If I wasn't raised on the flop...
6) I continuation bet the good ace on the turn.
7) If I get called on the turn, I most likely check-raise river.

In BOTH scenario I mix up between check-calling the river and check-raising the river. It'd depend on how I feel.
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Don't mind me - I just throwing donkey opinions [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Suppose you didn't mix my lines together with the given - I'd like to hear why you think that's allowing opponents to play perfectly.

~andy