Interesting line by villain...donk, donk?

HoneyBadger · #1 01-11-2007, 05:49 PM

3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 6 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Grease · #2 01-11-2007, 05:59 PM

He pulled the stop-and-go on you, which means he is probably worried you're on a flush draw.

That said, raising that bet should slow him down, but I think he improved on the river again (or has been ahead the whole time) when he is undeterred by your flop and turn aggression.

I would probably call against an unknown unless I had a read that said otherwise, but think you lose here ~85-90% of the time.

TheHip41 · #3 01-11-2007, 06:41 PM

I haven't play a lot of full ring lately, but isn't limping QTs UTG1 bad? I mean, you are going to get isolated by KJo, and c/f the flop a lot. I don't think there are many 3-6 full games where this is a correct open limp.

Grease · #4 01-11-2007, 07:01 PM

Yeah, I totally forgot about the open-limp.

I can't see it being correct in the games that are online ATM. Live I would limp this all day, but online, it's going into the virtual muck.

W. Deranged · #5 01-11-2007, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably call against an unknown unless I had a read that said otherwise, but think you lose here ~85-90% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think we're good here at least 1/3 of the time if not close to half.

When I see opponents do this, it often just betrays a very naive poker mindset. Basically, the thinking is:

Flop: "I have a pair. It's my decision. I'll bet I guess. Oh [censored]. He raised me. But I can't fold. I call."

Turn: "I have a pair. It's my decision. I'll bet I guess. Oh [censored]. He raised me. But I can't fold. I call."

River: "I have a pair. It's my decision. I'll bet I guess."

I mean, sometimes villain improves, but this line is just so odd that I think very often it is just the sort of line taken by a player who has little experience with the game and doesn't get the relationships between different betting rounds.

I guess it's sort of moot, because we're both advocating a call, but I think this is in the realm of "easy calls."

Grease · #6 01-11-2007, 07:33 PM

I guess I agree with you upon further thought.

The line he's taking is simply too peculiar for me to pin down as any type of hand, so I'm definitely taking him to showdown.

That said, I was probably pessimistic in my percentage, but I agree, we must call this here.

JJH3984 · #7 01-11-2007, 07:52 PM

wouldn't you raise this preflop in a good live loose pasive game?

HoneyBadger · #8 01-12-2007, 06:03 AM

The limp was a little loose, but I don't think it's really bad. It just didn't turn out too well, but there were plenty of overlimpers at the table I think.

Btw, isn't the stop 'n go only useful when the turn card is very likely to significantly change your hand value either up or down? When there's "just" a flush draw you're worried about isn't it much better to simply 3 bet immediately?

He turned over a set of deuces. I've been thinking about villain's line here, and I might actually like it. I would probably have folded to a 3 bet on the turn; had he 3 bet the flop I wouldn't have raised the turn. I think he made the absolute maximum on this particular hand. I don't know if it's always good though, because with many hands I'd also call a turn 3 bet and river bet. But lately I've been thinking more and more about calling and donking against better opponents. Often they make plays like "raise, fold to a 3 bet, otherwise take free showdown". The best counter strategy here is to donk the next street.

WalkAmongUs · #9 01-12-2007, 09:03 AM

I'd play it the same.

I usually limp this from EP unless the game is super-tight aggressive. If the game is like this though, I'm usually moving on.

HoneyBadger · #10 01-12-2007, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd play it the same.

[/ QUOTE ]You mean my hand right, not villain's?