Is this time for the ol' Clarkmeister play?

Douglas Leslie · #1 05-08-2007, 02:57 PM

Villain is 23.23:2.58:1.44 after 150 hands and hasn't done anything to attract my attention up until now.
All options seem possible on the river. Should I c/c, c/f, b/c or b/f?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG1 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero?

Neku · #2 05-08-2007, 03:06 PM

*n00b alert*
what is clarkmeister? A bluff on the river? I don't think bluffing here has a chance, since he's been calling it down like a good boy.

sixsixtie · #3 05-08-2007, 03:15 PM

A clarkmeister is betting the flop, regardless of prior action, when the fourth flush card comes when your OOP.

bozlax · #4 05-08-2007, 03:18 PM

Personally, I'm more concerned with your preflop/flop/turn play. This guy has a pfr of 2.58? What's he 3banging in UTG+1 that you want to cap against? You also probably want to move to his left.

But, now you're at the river. Based on his stats, you're not folding anything you want to fold (any TT/JJ has the spade or would've folded already, QQ/KK/AA is going to look you up having come this far or raise you with the spade), I think you have to check/call and hope he bluffs at it with AK nospade.

He checked behind with KK nospade, didn't he?

Fantam · #5 05-08-2007, 03:19 PM

Its hard to resist doing a Clarkmeister play. Even if you dont win, it makes you feel as though you know something about poker when you try it. LOL.

Anyway, this looks like a tough spot to me. Your opponent 3-bet preflop, and the way he has called down looks as though he had AK with one of them being a spade.

And if he had a pocket pair, I would imagine that you were usually beat.

Nonetheless, check folding looks weak, and if you are prepared to call a river bet, then I imagine bet/folding which would cost the same would be better.

So, I would go with the Clarkmeister play.

Douglas Leslie · #6 05-08-2007, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'm more concerned with your preflop/flop/turn play. This guy has a pfr of 2.58? What's he 3banging in UTG+1 that you want to cap against? You also probably want to move to his left.

But, now you're at the river. Based on his stats, you're not folding anything you want to fold (any TT/JJ has the spade or would've folded already, QQ/KK/AA is going to look you up having come this far or raise you with the spade), I think you have to check/call and hope he bluffs at it with AK nospade.

He checked behind with KK nospade, didn't he?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that I queried the wisdom of raising with JJ in this kind of situation on another thread and was advised that it made play easier later in the hand, so I decided to give it a go! Perhaps the best policy is not to have a fixed policy and to mix it up a little?

I checked the river and called my opponent's bet for much the same reasons that you have suggested. I didn't think that villain had AA, KK or QQ or I would have heard about it by the turn. Most likely she had AK with a spade, so I was probably beaten since it didn't seem likely that she would call AK without a spade on the turn. Betting seemed pointless if that was her hand, so I checked in the hope that she would either check behind or alternatively bluff at the pot after making a loose call on the turn with AK (no spade). Am I allowed to post the result? How do I do it in white?

bozlax · #7 05-08-2007, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that I queried the wisdom of raising with JJ in this kind of situation on another thread and was advised that it made play easier later in the hand, so I decided to give it a go! Perhaps the best policy is not to have a fixed policy and to mix it up a little?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, you absolutely should have raised first in, and you always should with JJ+/AK/AQs in micro games. Against this guy 3-betting you from UTG+1, tho, I think capping was probably not a great choice; he's holding AA/KK too much of the time. In this case I don't really think that capping pf made the hand easier to play, I think it just made him call you down with KK.

Let's see, he's sLPP, but he pf3'd from EP. Two possible lines:

* smooth-call the pf3, and c/r any flop that's all undercards to your pair; or
* cap pf, lead ANY flop. Once you do this, tho, and get called, and then an OC + draw-completer lands on the turn, you need to check and if the Villan bets you can pretty safely fold. (I know, I know, "his stats look like he's pretty postflop aggro," right? To me, his stats look like he plays his good hands hard and gives up a lot, so once he doesn't give up on the flop you can be pretty sure you're behind.)

As to posting results, just use the quickie thing below the edit box to change the font color (click the white box) if you want to do that, but this thread isn't exactly roaring along, so I don't think you're going to influence anybody by just posting them.

Douglas Leslie · #8 05-08-2007, 09:46 PM

After 150 hands I'm not sure that the stats give any more than a general indication that villain is not a complete idiot, insofar that she doesn't bet garbage hands or play like a maniac.
The earlier thread that I referred to contained advice to cap pre-flop with JJ when raised from players who I suspect know a bit more about these things than I do. In that case villain was an unknown, which could make a difference I guess. In this particular hand villain's pre-flop AF might simply indicate that she hasn't had a lot of hands worth raising so I wasn't attaching too much weight to it.
As it happens I was ahead in this hand until the river because villain had 1010 including a spade. I doubt whether she was going to fold this to a river bet, but it might have been a better chance than the line that I took.
I would hazard a guess that the pre-flop cap in this instance resulted in her not raising my flop bet so the overall result was probably neutral.