$300 NL: Playing a Monster from EP

mxp2004 · #1 10-15-2007, 02:01 PM

I could use some suggestions for the best line to use when you have a big hand, but are first to act. The following hand comes from a live $300 NL game with $1 and $2 blinds.

Six players limped to me in the BB. I had over $300 behind at the start of the hand. I checked with 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and 7 players saw a flop with a $14 pot.

The flop was good for me, but draw heavy: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I decide to lead out to protect my hand, betting $15. Five players called, with only the SB folding. The pot was now $104.

So far, so good, I think. But let me know if you think my flop bet was too small.

The turn brought the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], giving me a full house. The board now read as follows:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I decided to check. My reasoning at the time was that I thought everyone would fold if I led out because I had been playing tight and everyone would conclude, correctly, that I held a 6. I also thought that, since I had the full house, it would be ok to let someone draw to the straight or one of the flushes cheaply.

In retrospect, I'm guessing that this was foolish. To maximize my value, I thinking that I probably should have a made a small bet, like maybe $20-$25, that all the drawers would have paid. What do you think?

In any event, following my check, an EP player bet $50 into the pot. He had about $75 left behind. Everyone else folded, and I just called. The pot was now $204, and we were heads up.

The river was a blank, and I was first to act. I led out for $75 to put him all in. I figured that, if he was on a draw, he wouldn't bet behind me, and if he had a hand, he'd call $75 to win a pot of about $280. However, he folded.

Was my reasoning correct on the river, or was a superior play to check and let him have a chance to bluff the river?

ManChild · #2 10-15-2007, 02:14 PM

people suck at poker, you got 5 calls on the flop, just bet, you will get called by bad players holding flush or straight draws, and other crap that you are beating including 99, and 6x

KhalynYohrk · #3 10-15-2007, 02:15 PM

raise turn.

thac · #4 10-15-2007, 02:18 PM

I agree with the first two replies, if he's on a draw, he's gonna call a turn bet before he calls a river bet. Since you got lucky enough for him to bet, you should shove.

JFsports · #5 10-15-2007, 02:24 PM

Bet 60 or 70 on the turn, shove river. You bet the turn because if people have draws they will call.
Given the turn action, you should CRAI

keikiwai · #6 10-15-2007, 02:46 PM

i think checking the turn is very tempting, but ime large multiway draw heavy rag pots get check around WAY more often then you would anticipate

the problem with checking a drawy board on the turn is that draws only pay you off on the turn, and if the miss they don't pay you off on the river - add to this that there are cards that will make a straight for someone but also a possible flush, which could slow down your action on the river even if one of the draws hits

so even though it's tempting to be trappy, bet the turn for 72 or something

Randiek · #7 10-15-2007, 02:50 PM

I like a bet here. How about a smallish 50-60 bet to induce a raise, or at least get called by possible draws. Or would your opponents notice the odd betsizing an see that you have a monster?

brianpower · #8 10-15-2007, 02:52 PM

I wouldn't like to bluff into that turn, so yeah bet it.

JFsports · #9 10-15-2007, 02:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like a bet here. How about a smallish 50-60 bet to induce a raise, or at least get called by possible draws. Or would your opponents notice the odd betsizing an see that you have a monster?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol no

mxp2004 · #10 10-15-2007, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
add to this that there are cards that will make a straight for someone but also a possible flush, which could slow down your action on the river even if one of the draws hits

so even though it's tempting to be trappy, bet the turn for 72 or something

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for all the replies. They're really helpful.

I don't understand the point that I quoted above. If a card falls on the river that completes one of the draws, why will that kill the action? And if that card completes both a straight and a flush, won't both players pay me off then?

Finally, I have a couple of questions about the amount of the turn bet. Let's say that I play this different and decide to lead out on the turn. A few of you have argued that I should bet around $75 on the turn (or 3/4 of the pot). That size bet tends to shut a lot of people down. Wouldn't a smaller, pot building bet be better? That might even get raised as a semi-bluff by someone on a draw, and then we can get all the money in on the turn.

I know that there are a lot of donks who play 1/2 NL on a Saturday night, but look at what happened here. An EP bet $50, and everyone but me folded.

So what do you think? FWIW, I think a lot of these small stakes players dump their marginal hands once the bets exceed $30, but they merrily call with them for lesser amounts no matter how scary the board.