QQ - OOP and flopped A

Rocco · #1 01-12-2007, 05:59 AM

Halfway through the 4th hour of the $3R+A $10k Gtd on Stars. I had been pretty active lately. Can't really remember average, but I'm pretty certain it's just shy of 50K. We're in the money, but payouts are small due to the 20% payout structure. Limper to my right is tourney chip leader. What's my flop action? My initial thinking is that the flopped A might be as scary for him as it is for me? Should I raise more preflop since limper is chip leader and likely more willing to call a larger raise?

Converter didn't include stack sizes. Here they are:
MP2: 207158
Hero: 64832
CO: 73964

PokerStars (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of 150. Button posts a blind of 150. SB posts a blind of 150. UTG posts a blind of 150. UTG+1 posts a blind of 150. MP1 posts a blind of 150. MP2 posts a blind of 150. Hero posts a blind of 150.
3 folds, MP2 (poster) calls 3000, Hero (poster) raises 9000 to 12000, CO (poster) calls 12000, 3 folds, MP2 folds.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

Is there a secret bet amount that does not cripple me and look like a scared bet at the same time? Pot is around 32K and Hero has 52K left when flop betting starts...

Kojak1984 · #2 01-12-2007, 06:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My initial thinking is that the flopped A might be as scary for him as it is for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would definitely tend to lead out at this pot. Chip leader is calling a middle position raise in position. His range of hands IMO would be large, and while Ax is certainly a possibility, it is far from definite.

You've raised pf, I would keep the initiative. If you check you're giving up a large pot. Personally I would bet around the 20-25k mark.

But as I'm the first poster I'm sure this will be torn to shreds. Oh well.

Fiksdal · #3 01-12-2007, 06:45 AM

C-bet t18000 and shut down to resistance.

Kojak1984 · #4 01-12-2007, 06:48 AM

Yeah actually looking again 25k would be too much. 18-20k is better.

beenben · #5 01-12-2007, 07:55 AM

(w/o reading other replies)

with the antes and the limp, raise more PF.Probably 15k.

on the flop, bet a little less than half the pot. Yes, he may be as scared of the ace as you are. But you only have that one overcard to worry about. the plan is, if he pushes back, you're going all in.

Kojak1984 · #6 01-12-2007, 07:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the plan is, if he pushes back, you're going all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Why not just go all-in straight away, if you're going to call a push? This doesn't make sense to me.

beenben · #7 01-12-2007, 08:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the plan is, if he pushes back, you're going all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Why not just go all-in straight away, if you're going to call a push? This doesn't make sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

the place to decide whether to push or check-fold is on the flop. If you read him for an ace ( which I don't think is likely because he would've re-raised P.F. with AK, not likely to have AQ since you have a Q) you want to make a bet that looks like you want him to call it. An all-in bet looks too much like a bet. If you think he has an ace, then check and fold if he bets (unless the bet is so small that you have odds to draw to your queen set).

And after you make this bet on the flop, you are essentially pot-committed. You'll have put about half your chips in. That's why you're calling an all - in. If you're going to fold, check-fold on the flop before you put those chips in.

Fiksdal · #8 01-12-2007, 08:39 AM

This thread has been a mess full of horrible advice.

Beenben

Being pot commited means that there is so much in the pot, that we have correct odds to put the rest in no matter what.

If we bet t18000, and villain pushes, the pot will be t86000, and it will cost us t36000 to call. These will be odds of 2.38 to 1, wich means we would need to win more than 30% of the time to make calling profitable.

Against an ace, we have 8.79% equity (assuming it isn't AQ, which has us drawing to one out.)

If we bet and villain pushes, we basically know he has an ace, and we are not getting the right price to call. In other words we will not be pot commited.

[ QUOTE ]

Huh? Why not just go all-in straight away, if you're going to call a push? This doesn't make sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, going all-in right away is the very worst of all alternatives here. Not only do we lose our entire stack if villain has an ace, we also fail to induce bluffs when he doesn't.

Bet/folding >> check/folding >>>>>> Bet/calling >>> Open pushing

Rocco · #9 01-12-2007, 08:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(w/o reading other replies)

with the antes and the limp, raise more PF.Probably 15k.

on the flop, bet a little less than half the pot. Yes, he may be as scared of the ace as you are. But you only have that one overcard to worry about. the plan is, if he pushes back, you're going all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think I have enough chips to pull this stunt? If I bet 20k on flop and he min-raises to 40, he's not gonna fold for another 12k when I re-pop him all-in. If we both had stacks over 100k, a re-raise all-in might get him to fold weak aces. With these stack sizes, that's not the case.

zoobird · #10 01-12-2007, 08:58 AM

With an M of 10ish and a limper ahead of me, I just push this pre-flop. I think people aren't realizing how shallow you are because the converter kind of butchered the blinds/antes.